HID Conversion Kits

[Atrus1212]

Originally Posted by scarrmrcc

i was doing some research about "the dreaded flicker" and it seems that is caused by the ballasts using 35w, where the normal bulbs use 55w. it makes the car think the bulb is blown, and it then cuts the power down, creating "flicker" in the ballast.

the only 2 solutions i have found so far are:
get the "non flicker kit" which makes the 35w ballast, use 55w (making the car see 55w)

or get 50-55w ballasts

i am looking at what it takes to make a "non-flicker kit" i work with a few electrical engineers (me being mechanical i have no clue) and might be simple as a small rectifier...easily built with el-chepo parts.

i will update you all tomorrow, when i find out.

That and the fact that the alternator is small if you turn the lights on while the car is off where the lights will be pulling off the battery they won't flicker but the moment you start the car they will flicker, this is a common problem for Dodge Charger/Magnum/ Chrysler 300 owners with the V6 versions of the cars the people with the Hemi's don't have this problem because the alternator is bigger and with the PT cruisers only being a 4 cyl I'm sure they alt isn't that big!! There is one company I know of that sells a 55w kit and it's AAC (Advanced Automotive Concepts) their website is aacstyle.com the kit is pricey at $379 and only come in 6000K as it is useless to have any higher or lower because performance is minimized at other temps. The 55w 6000K is brighter than a 35w 6000K kit!!

[THS_Cruiser03]

Atrus,

Standard headlights run 55 - 80 watts, so a 35 watt draw from and HID ballast should not be a problem...right? Or theoretically even a 55 watt draw should be okay. If a 55 watt halogen doesn't flicker why would a 35 watt or 55 wat HID do it? The power consumption is less or equivalent.

Also, the engine in the car doesn't necessarily dictate what size the Alternator is, it's the option packages and available electronics you have. For instance I looked up on Napa and found the following items listed:

2006 Dodge Charger 2.7L V6 - Avalaible alternators are 140 or 160 Amp
2006 Dodge Charger 5.7L V8 - Same alternators listed...
- for comparison -
2006 PT Cruiser 2.4L I4 - Available alternators 100 or 130 amp (optional)

Chargers & 300c's have more options availble than PT's like back seat DVD systems, larger factory stereos w/amps, heated seats etc. So they would require a higher output electrical system than say even a loaded PT would require. Chargers/300c's are also sold from the factory with OEM HID lights - I wonder what the difference is between the HID car and the Halogen car?

I understand that when the engine is off the flicker goes away - that may be more to do with noise in the system than with actual voltage drops. If you turned off all the electronics in your car and ran your HID's a 100 amp alternator should have NO problem running two 35 or 55 watt HID balasts...right? Or if you run your standard halogen low beams and turn on your high beams that would be a MUCH higer wattage draw than the HID system (55+80= 135 x 2= 270 watts!).

I think the root cause on this has something to do with how each HID ballast handles the consistency of power coming off the alternator....you could test your electrical system and see if when your HID"s are on what happens to the voltage levels? Does it fluctuate? Stay constant? - If it fluctuates alot (say more than 20-30%) then you probably have a faulty voltage regulator and it only acts up under higher loads.

I suppose dropping in a 160 amp alternator (if you can even get one) for a PT might solve the flicker issue, but I don't know if that would be the right way to approach it.

I'm going for HID upgrade this spring and I'm concerned about this flicker issue as well.

Your thoughts,

Tom

[Atrus1212]

The reason the 35w HIDs flicker is because the car thinks the bulb is burnt out so it trys to stop the electrical flow to the lights. But only when not pulling straight off the battery. The factory puts a certain size alt in to run what was ordered with the car not many after market items such as after market stereo's or other things. The easiest way to fix the flicker is the flicker fixes you will find around eBay most likely. Most people when ordering a 2.7L Charger don't think about the alt because it is basically a fleet vehicle but if you were to order the premium stereo and uConnect then it will most likely have the 160 alt in it. I have a friend who just did the 300c conversion to his Magnum he has a 2.7 and had to put the relays on to fix the flicker from the factory HID lamps he has. The big reason they come on and then flicker is because the HIDs take around 80w to come on but then run at 35w so when the power consumption lessens the car thinks the bulb is out. A bigger alt would also solve the problem and also open you up to more possibilities I know someone who is selling 250 and 300 amp Alts right now the only issue with them is they are untested so he has some people interested but not many. He competes in Sound contests so he needs the bigger alt.

[THS_Cruiser03]

I guess I don't understand why a car would "stop the power flow to the lights" of the bulb was burnt out?

Basically the power flows from + to - through the halogen (in this case) bulb and there is some current loss due to the heat of the filament. If the bulb burns out then the power loss going through the headlight would be zero nil - because the circuit is now open due to the burned out filament.....or am I thinking of this backwards?

Anyway the other thing I was thinking about is the fact taht OEM cars with HID lights have a special projector lens vs. the PT with reflector type lenses. This means you won't have the focused beam you would get with OEM HID on your aftermarket kit.

I searched for aftermarket PT headlights with projector lenses and found one place that listed them, but not actually apparently for sale.

Then I found this link: High Intensity Discharge (HID) Headlights

<Here is a snip from the web page>

NHTSA Cracks Down on Aftermarket HID Conversion Kits

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is targeting high-intensity discharge (HID) conversion kits for enforcement actions. NHTSA has concluded that it is impossible to produce HID conversion kits (converting a halogen system to HID) that would be compliant with the federal lighting standard, Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) No. 108. The noncompliant kits frequently include a HID bulb, a ballast, an igniter, a relay and wiring harness adapters. The NHTSA believes this equipment presents a safety risk to the public since the kits can be expected to produce excessive glare to oncoming motorists. In one investigation, the NHTSA found that an HID conversion headlamp exceeded the maximum allowable candlepower by over 800%.

Under FMVSS No. 108 Section S7.7 (replaceable light sources), each replaceable light source for headlamps must be designed to conform to the dimensions and electrical specifications for the headlamp source it is intended to replace. For example, if an HID kit is marketed as replacing an H1 light source, then it must match the H1's wire coil filament size and location, the electrical connector size and location and the ballast design for use with an H1 light source (which is impossible since there is no ballast). Consequently, companies that are manufacturing HID light sources (e.g., D1S, D1R, D2S, D2R, 9500, etc�) with incandescent light source bases (e.g., H1, H3, H7, H8, H9, H11, H13, HB1, HB2, HB3, HB4, HB5, etc�) should be aware that this light source design would not be one that conforms to FMVSS No. 108, and could not be imported and sold in the United States without violating Federal law. (The importer is treated as the manufacturer and subject to the same fines and penalties that apply to a domestic manufacturer.)

NHTSA has also determined that a commonly used disclaimer "for off-road use only" has no legal meaning and is not recognized by the agency as the manufacturer, importer and retailer are not in a position to control use once a product has been sold. Any equipment offered for sale which is covered by FMVSS No. 108 (headlamps, taillamps, side markers, etc.) must comply with the standard
<end snip>

So now I'm thinking the standard conversion to HID bulbs on stock PT lamps is inviting a ticket from Grandpa who wants you to "get off his lawn" or cops with nothing better to do.

If I do the conversion I may have to add some black out stripes on the upper portion of the lights to reduce glare....

Do you have any experience with this?

Curiously,

Tom

[Atrus1212]

I don't personally have any trouble nor do any of my friends but the projector lens is not always true because I've seen Volvo, Infiniti, Lexus, etc cars with HIDs from the factory that are still using the reflector lens not a projector. Most cops won't bother you if you keep to 3000K to 10000K even though up to 12000K is "street legal" because of it's purple color some cops will at least pull you over for them. I have 6000K in my Magnum and my dad has 6000K in his PT Cruiser and neither of us have had any police issues with them. So I'd say go for it but the worst the cops will do if they pull you over the first time is tell you to take them out so don't get rid of your stock bulbs.

[THS_Cruiser03]

Atrus,

Okay good information. I hadn't realized there were OEM cars with HID and standard reflector type lamps. I thought all HID's were projector lamps...so that's good to know. I'm planning on going with 8000k for my low beams and 6000k for the highs which should be a pretty powerful combination for the dark two lane rual roads I drive. Good to know the 6k's don't attract the cops...at least in your area.

Anyway I still don't understand the car measuring the power difference with the 35w HID's and intermittently cutting the power to the lights, but I've done some research on this and apparently this is the "accepted" root cause for the flicker problem. This is a problem not just in Chrylser products, I saw the issue in forums for BMW, Volkswagen, Mitsubishi, & Mercedes cars etc.

The other thing I still don't understand about this (and I apoligize if it's already been explained in the forum here) but if the car sees the HID as a blown bulb why does a larger alternator help the problem? Regardless of ALT. size the system would still see a "blown bulb" and cut the power wouldn't it? *shrug*

Ebay is blocked at work for me so I can't search that now, but I would appreciate any links you have to sellers who sell the relay kits and/or resistor packs necessary to fix the issue on PT's. Can you help? What did your friend use on his 2.7L 300c HID fix?

Also - can you clarify: You said he had the flicker problem with his "Factory HID lamps", but I didn't know you could order a 300c w/2.7L and get HID's? Figured you had to opt for at least a touring edition 3.5L....? Or did he just by the whole factory headlamp assembly (with projector lenses) and retro fit to his 2.7 300c?

During my research I found this guy on a forum who quoted what he did to his '07 Sebring to get the flicker problem taken care of:

<quote from Chrysler Enthusiasts Forum> Chrysler Forum - Chrysler Enthusiast Forums - View Single Post - aftermarket head lights and tail lights?

<i>I have an aftermarket PnP 4300K Xenon HIDs installed on my Sebring. I bought the set from sinomedia on ebay. You'll need a relay kit and 2 6ohm 50 watt resistors to make the HIDs work properly.</i>


I didn't see any links to this "Sinomedia" he talks about in the topic, but the resistor values are probably spot on to stop a PT flicker problem especially since the Sebrings are sold with the 2.4L.

Were getting there, the solution is within grasp...I just need a source for the fix parts if they are already produced. That would make the install TONS easier.

Looking forward to your response...

Tom

[Atrus1212]

He has a Dodge Magnum SE and we did a 300c conversion to the front end so he got some 300c OEM HIDs. If you haven't ordered HIDs yet a good seller to get them from off ebay is lighting623 he includes everything you need to fix a flicker free of charge I've never seen just the capacitors on ebay but I'm sure they are there another place that sells them is Autobarn.com my friend works there and told me they sell them. My dad hasn't had any flicker problems for about a month now and we didn't do anything to his lights so I really don't know what is up with that one. Here is a link to my photobucket album from the swap we did on my friends car http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h6...201%2023%2009/

Here is a picture of the finished product he is going in for paint in a couple of weeks after he puts his VDI kit on and his new wheels.

[THS_Cruiser03]

Atrus,

Thanks for the info and clarificaton. BTW your buddies 300c wagon looks BAMF with that front end on it! They used to sell the 300c in Europe like this but you couldn't get one over here.

I'll check out your Ebay guy and see if he can help out with 9006 & 9005 no flicker kits. The set I'm currently looking at is going to run me about $200 for a full HID conversion on my PT (both low and high beams) so we'll see where his pricing comes in at. If not I will check out autobarn.com.

Your Dad's PT has no flicker issues? Did he buy his kit from "Lightning623" on ebay or some place else? What kit did he buy? Do you have a link source?

*goes to check out your ride* Love your ride man! Dig the halos too - do they run all the time or only when the parking light cicuit is on?

*goes to check out your buddies 300c wagon conversion link* Damn! - Site says I need a p/w to see anything.


Thanks for your help and insight on this whole issue. I really apprecitate the help.

Tom

[Atrus1212]

No his came with the JDM black headlights he got for Xmas so I'm not sure where his came from.... they had problems at first but he told me last night no problems for about a month so he's good. Check the link again I hadn't made my photobucket public so it is now!! My halo's are wired into my parking lights I was being lazy when I put them in right now they are not working and I need spring to come to swap out the inverters to get them working again!! I was debating rewiring my Halo's to run separate from the parking lights but I'm not in the process of doing a Chargum and the headlights won't be used anymore!!

This is a Chargum


the only difference between this one and what mine will look like is that one has the SRT facia and I'm going with the regular one... less parts to buy and they are cheaper!!

[outfit]

I had a big issue with the flickering.... I had bought a kit , not a cheap one either.the company even sent me another set of dif ballasts . I purchased a flicker harness from Intensehid.com... The harness didn't work with the kit I bought... After everything I sent it all back and bought another kit from a company in the states on ebay.. Called xhidoutlet. I have a link it is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HID-XENON-CONVERSION-KIT-6000K-8000K-10000K-12000K-9006_W0QQitemZ180333166686QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item18033316668 6&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A727|66%3A1|6 5%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318.. I bought the 8000k from them with the battery harness and it works great... Oh by the way I have an 06 PT Touring... I plan on putting in another set for my highs.. Has anyone added another set of hids to their PT..If so what match did you use. 8000k low with 6000k high is what I am thinking about going with ...