GAS MILEAGE RANTS

[nexium]

I think the part about buying in the morning is a bit off. The underground temps at tank depth are very constant. If you do fill when it cooler, and the fuel expands, you'll have more volume, with the weight staying the same. I believe fuel injected motors go by fuel weight and not volume for the metering process.
Lemme know if this sounds reasonable. I have my flak jacket and helmet on.

[lakersfan1]

I also thought underground temps were more consistant, which is the premise of geothermal heating and cooling systems, but I also believe geothermic systems are buried up to 300 feet deep ...... I don't think fuel tanks are buried very deep under the ground. Maybe 20 feet at thier highest point if that.

[nexium]

Yup - the vertically bored wells could be 300 feet, but the alternative is coils of tubing buried 10 feet or so. Depends on the land area. With tight real estate, zoning restrictions, and easements, the bored ones may be better. If I recall correctly, the temp at 10-12 feet is pretty much 50 F all year long in undisturbed soil. If you have a Class C or D soil (lots of digging or unpedigreed fill material) the number would be different.

[AlexJB]

I share your concerns about buying imported oil, but as I'm from the UK where we have nothing more than a drop in the oil ocean coming from our north sea oil fields, we have little choice other than buy mostly imported oil. My gripe is not the oil countries making 15p/litre or the fourcourt makin 5-7p/litre, it's our own blood sucking goverment that then ads 75p/litre tax, yes thats right over 70% of the cost of a litre (or gallon for that matter) goes straight to the fat cat's at Downing street and the state of the roads and congestion do not reflect the size of the cut they take.

I'm loving only paying $3.5? for a US gallon of shell optimax, that would cost you just shy of $9 in the UK, and $6.30 of that WOULD BE TAX.

[ucantcme]

Originally Posted by AlexJB

I share your concerns about buying imported oil, but as I'm from the UK where we have nothing more than a drop in the oil ocean coming from our north sea oil fields, we have little choice other than buy mostly imported oil. My gripe is not the oil countries making 15p/litre or the fourcourt makin 5-7p/litre, it's our own blood sucking goverment that then ads 75p/litre tax, yes thats right over 70% of the cost of a litre (or gallon for that matter) goes straight to the fat cat's at Downing street and the state of the roads and congestion do not reflect the size of the cut they take.

I'm loving only paying $3.5? for a US gallon of shell optimax, that would cost you just shy of $9 in the UK, and $6.30 of that WOULD BE TAX.

Thats ridiculous, but not much you can do about it huh?

Gas will only get more expensive...now's the time for technology to kick in, making hybrids the same price as regular, non-hybrid cars.

[cleverklutz]

I hate hybrids so much. They have so much junk that can go wrong. I'm sure replacing the battery packs, the regenerative braking, and the electric motors has got to be a thrill from a financial standpoint. Hybrids have been given some awesome "Godlike" status but they aren't that great. For the most part an efficient diesel makes more power, uses less fuel, with just as little or less emissions on the newest diesels. Offering more vehicles with a diesel option would be a good place to start, and a lot cheaper than a hybrid.

The other option people are always so thrilled about is hydrogen fuel cell cars. I am unsure which I hate more, hybrids or hydrogen fuel cell cars. The reason behind this is that for some reason someone wants to eliminate the internal combustion engine. Maybe I just don't like the idea of big brother, but that would be a very effective way of limiting performance if everything was electric. How would you hop up an electric car? Change the battery wiring from parallel to series? Am I against hydrogen? No, absolutely not. If you have a large source of renewable energy such as hydroelectricity, solar, or wind, it's feasible to produce hydrogen. What I don't understand is why don't manufacturers run hydrogen in normal cars? I read a recent article in Popular Mechanics where Jay Leno tested a new BMW hydrogen fueled car. I think it had a V-12, and I can't remember the HP, but it moved. It could be filled with hydrogen or gas if hydrogen wasn't available. I don't think it would be hard for manufacturers to retrofit existing gas powered cars with fuel systems that would support hydrogen. It should be a very similar system to running on propane, which has been done for years. Maybe I just like the sound of a throaty V8, but I don't understand the huge push to electric motors and the rush to get rid of the "evil" internal combustion engine.

Ben

[soonercruiser]

Thanks for all follow-up posts folks!

Lakersfans - I agree. WE as Americans are just too spolied, and will be unlikely to give up the SUV or performance needs.

Nexium -our pumps here in OK use "flow meters", that's why the vapor adds to the volume.

I've got a little problem with the tank temp too. But, I just saw them bury one here, and it was only about 5-8 feet under the concrete. Although ground temps are more constant. The surface concrete can get hot enough to fry armadillos here in the summer, and the gas can vaporize quicky when coming in contact with the warmer pipes....I guess!!

[Silvereagle]

If you really want to lower your gas prices this is what we all have to do. Back in the mid Seventy's President Nivon made it a law that stated that all federally funded Highways lower there speed limits form 65 to 55 Miles per hour. At first everyone thought that this wouldn't work. Well we were wrong. within six weeks gasoline was plenty full again and the prices had dropped. It was called 55 stay alive. Now it's about time that we get G.Bush to put his coloring books away for a while and make a move to lower gas prices just like Nixon Did. Pass this along to all your friends and maybe if we all get the message to the White House, then something may get done.

[lakersfan1]

Originally Posted by Silvereagle

If you really want to lower your gas prices this is what we all have to do. Back in the mid Seventy's President Nivon made it a law that stated that all federally funded Highways lower there speed limits form 65 to 55 Miles per hour. At first everyone thought that this wouldn't work. Well we were wrong. within six weeks gasoline was plenty full again and the prices had dropped. It was called 55 stay alive. Now it's about time that we get G.Bush to put his coloring books away for a while and make a move to lower gas prices just like Nixon Did. Pass this along to all your friends and maybe if we all get the message to the White House, then something may get done.

Have you tried to drive cross-country at 55? Road trips in the 80's were as boring as watching paint drip. Some states (like Utah and Nevada) are best seen as qiuickly as possible.

It's be better IMO to drop about 500 lbs from cars. That'd be good for about 5MPG. Don't forget in the late 80's and early 90's that you could find a 30MPG car easy. There were even a few turbo hatches like the Plymouth Colt that still managed 30MPG. It's because they were 2200 lbs soaking wet.

[ucantcme]

Originally Posted by lakersfan1

Have you tried to drive cross-country at 55? Road trips in the 80's were as boring as watching paint drip. Some states (like Utah and Nevada) are best seen as qiuickly as possible.

It's be better IMO to drop about 500 lbs from cars. That'd be good for about 5MPG. Don't forget in the late 80's and early 90's that you could find a 30MPG car easy. There were even a few turbo hatches like the Plymouth Colt that still managed 30MPG. It's because they were 2200 lbs soaking wet.

I second that. One morning I traveled to work (26miles) crusing at 55 the whole way. It felt like I was crawling across the interstate with angry drivers passing me left and right. I will admit that trip didn't touch my gas needle, but I can't do that. The speed limit on the road outside of my neighborhood is 50, thats 2 lanes. Being on an open highway going 55 is just insane. I personally cannot stand the people that go that slow on the interstate. If you want to save gas, take the back roads going 30.

Plus, even if the speed limit was 55, people would still go 60-70. Why don't we just make the interstate speed limit 30 and people may be brave enough to speed to 55 to "save" gas.

It won't work, I don't see it working atleast in my life time (I'm 18) .