Fan not coming on

[captcueball]

Yeah Crewzin, I might have been the one who mentioned the fan motor being sold seperate...and now I can finally afford to replace it (hey that Gov Stimulus check came in handy for something)..

Crewzin...if you have any advice about removing the grill and cross member that would help alot....

I'm also going to have to unhook and "lean" the radatior foward? to get the shroud out?....

a lil more detail will help me visualize what I'm getting myself into..again..thanks for any advice..

[CREWZIN]

OK, you caught me just before I'm signing off for my trip up to Virginia.

Yes, you have to lean the radiator forward. You do not have to take off the lower radiator hose but you do have to let some water out as the top hose has to come off. I for get but there's about 4 or 6 bolts holding on the whle fan shroud on some loosen from the top, some you have to get to from the bottom. One set of wires on the fan motor. The hardest part was the horizontal cross member in front of the radiator. There's two bolts on either end hidden behind the front part of the car after the front grill is off. I think they are 10mm and if you have the type of wrenches that have a built in ratchet, they work the best.

Good luck.

[TheAnt]

OK folks,got 'er under control.
As often is the case when you have two causes it muddies the water and makes troubleshooting more difficult.

I proved from an earlier post the fan was bad, brushes or winding. Both were bradded, not bolted together so I didn't bother.I think it was $109 before taxes.

That is fixed, thanks for some great guidance here!

The trouble began to show itself at highway speeds as well.

The radiator cap holds pressure to raise the boiling point of the coolant. If the spring gets weak pressure is reduced and coolant boils out, perhaps even before the thermostat opens. Anyway the cap was between $3 and $4 and is always a good shotgun candidate.

I don't know whether you use that term. Working on mid-range computers (not PCs) we called replacing a part that commonly causes symptoms without being sure (especially if it is an inexpensive part) a shotgun approach.

I never got around to changing the thermostat but I have a new one. I delayed because I wanted to "catch the slow rabbits first" and didn't have a low torque wrench for the intake cover.

Peace at last! ...then again, I'm getting the code for steering pressure switch problems. Oh well... that's what you get when all you can afford is cars over 100 kilomiles.

[chefotto]

I had the same problem on my 2001 PT excepted my air conditioner did not work and the car was over heating in traffic, it would cool down after the car was rolling with some airflow or I had to shut it down before critical temp..or if I could not stop the motor (because of traffic) I would put the heating fan up to max along with the interior temp. It would bring it down 1/8 on the water temp gauge. (that works ok in a emergency and in Canadian winters but I sure would not like to be in the same situation in one of my soutern neighbors heat spells! God Bless if it happens to you!) It started after my timing belt and water pump was changed. I brought it back and they saided that the fan and a relay had to be changed$$$$$$.

I was not convinced, so I put the front end on my steel ramps and jumped the power connections and found that it worked fine (rad cooling fan). While I was under the front end, I discovered at the rear of the A/C compressor, close to to underside, a 2 pronge concecter was disconected!

I replugged it and my fan and A/C are still working A-Okay!

Moral of this story; check the simple thinks that are in plan sight and some times you can luck out like I did. Hope this helps.

Chef Otto

[TheAnt]

Originally Posted by chefotto

I had the same problem on my 2001 PT excepted my air conditioner did not work and the car was over heating in traffic, it would cool down after the car was rolling with some airflow or I had to shut it down before critical temp..or if I could not stop the motor (because of traffic) I would put the heating fan up to max along with the interior temp. It would bring it down 1/8 on the water temp gauge. ...

I was very surprised at how much the heater helped. Try that with a V8, heh.

It started after my timing belt and water pump was changed. I brought it back and they saided that the fan and a relay had to be changed$$$$$$.

Mine happened right after that too,like next day or so.

I was not convinced, so I put the front end on my steel ramps and jumped the power connections and found that it worked fine (rad cooling fan). While I was under the front end, I discovered at the rear of the A/C compressor, close to to underside, a 2 pronge concecter was disconected!

I replugged it and my fan and A/C are still working A-Okay!

I found the female end of the fan plug pretty corroded. i cleanedit but it didn't help. Then again when I gave it a slight nudge it would start but weakly. This likely indicates burnt up brushes or a bad winding.

Moral of this story; check the simple thinks that are in plan sight and some times you can luck out like I did. Hope this helps.

Chef Otto

You are so right there! In Texas we call that "catchin' the slow rabbits first"

[chefotto]

Hi Ant,

The Heater Fan on at high (+ temp to max heat) will not bring it down by much, if you are almost in the red, it will bring it down by a 1/8 of a notch. (which sure beats boil over in heavy traffic.) From what my ex ARMY Mechanic, father in law, has said, your sucking heat off the cooling system of the engine, kind of like making a mini rad. and fan. He also say's : puting the trany in neutrel at traffic stops sometimes helps also if you have a automatic. shutting down (in combination with) unnecesary electrical gagets will help unload a little more work off your engine (this Technic only works if your rad fan is down) It will not help if your Thermostat or water pump is shot, or if you haven't drained, flushed and retopped your cooling system.

Here in Canada we call that "playing with fire". Just kidding!

Take care Bud

Otto

[TheAnt]

Originally Posted by TheAnt

I was very surprised at how much the heater helped. Try that with a V8, heh.

I found the female end of the fan plug pretty corroded. i cleanedit but it didn't help. Then again when I gave it a slight nudge it would start but weakly. This likely indicates burnt up brushes or a bad winding.

Thanks for the help. Well, she boiled over again yesterday. EIther the thermostat is bad or the connector is not making good contact. I will test for the fan coming on and maybe solder those wires. Otherwise I will change the thermostat. I just hate removing the top intake part and re-torquing it. I have a torque wrench now though.

[peregrino_boat]

I have been having the same problem with my 2007 PT with 42K miles. I took it to a NTB shop and they said that the rough idle was caused by the cooling pressure going over 400psi (thus the rough idle), then the car cuts the A/C compressor, so the pressure drops back to normal (the correct idle). He said it was a) the relays (a high-speed and a low-speed relay), b) the fan fuse, or c) the fan assembly. So I took it to the dealer who confirmed that it was the fan assembly. He said that it is a 2 speed electric fan, and one of the speeds is not working. Final estimated replacement cost at the dealer: about $700.00! I don't THINK so! The full replacement assembly from moparpartsamerica.com is under $300.00.

As long as we are moving and the A/C is set on recirculate (?) (the button by the little car on the A/C control) then it is fine. When we stop, it usually goes into the rough idling stuff, so it is a liveable thing for the short-term. I just want to fix it before the added strain breaks something else.

My question is this. How HARD is it to remove the fans electrical connection. I pushed the little red tab out and tried to pull it apart, but I was worried that it would break on me because it didn't want to come apart. Is there a trick to getting it apart? And are there any other gotcha's that I may run into. When I looked at it it seemed to be rather straight forward. One electrical connection to the cars harness, and a couple of bolts holding the fan assembly to the radiator assembly. Reading this thread made things seem even easier. Lets hope so.

Thanks in advance.
PS: For the person who said to put something on the fan blade to see if it is moving (hard to see, for sure), I used a piece of blue painters masking tape on one of the blades and that helped. And I didn't need to worry about removing it when I was finished.

[CREWZIN]

You got it. One electrical connection with the red tab on top which slides all the way to the right then pull it apart. If it didn't come apart, push the red tab some more and there may be a part of the black connection at the bottom that has to be pulled up. It's been a few years since I did it.

You can pick up the whole fan and housing for about $100 on eBay or I was told you can just buy the fan motor at Auto Zone. $700 wow, I should have taken up auto mechanics in my spare time.

The fan housing has about 4 or 6 bolts holding it on. It comes out from the top so the upper radiator hose has to come off and the horizontal bar in front of the radiator has to come loose as the radiator has to lean forward to make enough room for the fan housing to come out the top.

[TheAnt]

Originally Posted by TheAnt

Thanks for the help. Well, she boiled over again yesterday. EIther the thermostat is bad or the connector is not making good contact. I will test for the fan coming on and maybe solder those wires. Otherwise I will change the thermostat. I just hate removing the top intake part and re-torquing it. I have a torque wrench now though.

Sorry about replying to myself but I got a sort of sub-thread going. You guys are a great bunch and I appreciate you!

Anyhow, I checked a suspect I had before. The fan motor WAS bad and is now replaced. It was under $120. The connector I had cleaned before proved bad even with the cleaning and the new fan/connector. So I grab it and apply pressure (kinda torque it) and the fan comes on... OK so I had enough of boiling over! I soldered the wires. I figure next time it needs replaced, re-soldering is less painful than removal and installation of the fan motor.

BTW, more evidence of a bad connection is heat. The ground wire (middle) connector male in the new connector showed discoloration and melting of the plastic. Corrosion means increased resistance, heat, and consumption of volts that would power the fan. The fan at lower voltage needs more current and the connection heats up. Heating the bad connection tends to cause more oxidation and then more heat. In your home, bad connections in light switches and electrical outlets and plugs steal volts/power from your appliance. Worse yet, they can cause fires... do not put wires under carpets/rugs.

Crewzin, great illustrative pics!