PT Cruiser Forum  
Advertisements
       

Go Back   PT Cruiser Forum > General Forums > General PT Cruiser Discussions

PT Cruiser Forum

Advertisements
A stupid Nu Finish question

 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11 Sep 2010, 11:38 am
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 18
Default A stupid Nu Finish question

Well, the car is finally mine, so the first thing I wanted to do was wash & wax it--who knows when was the last time it was waxed? So we had some Nu Finish hanging around and I figured I might as well use it.

So I read the directions and it says you should apply a second coat after 30 days for more protection. So here are my questions:

1. Does the second coat REALLY provide that much more protection?
2. I'm assuming you are supposed to WASH the car before putting on that second coat? The directions don't specifically state that, and unfortunately I am the kind of person who needs to have stuff like that specifically stated.

Anyway, I'm enjoying sitting about 5 feet higher off the road than in my old car (a 94 Saturn SC2), even though I no longer have a trunk to stash the bodies in.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11 Sep 2010, 12:44 pm
Candyman's Avatar
Dedicated Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hemet CA
Posts: 2,316
Send a message via Yahoo to Candyman
Smile Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

Hey their melluna,

First off welcome to the Forum.

As for your questions, you can actually apply a second coat of wax after 24 hours which in the Detailing Industry is known as layering though with Nu Finish being more of a consumer grade liquid wax which contains a high water content and lower level of overall protection it is really not going to provide much more in way of protection. Layering is more suitable when using a good paste wax like Meguiar's NXT Paste Wax, or Mothers pure Carnuba Paste Wax both in a round canister rather than in a bottle. The reason is paste wax is a more pure form of wax providing a much better layer of protection without as where a liquid wax in a bottle is a bit easier to use but tends to be watered down and provides less than desirable protection.

Most waxes last between 30 - 60 days max before needing re-application under most circumstances. This means that if you were to apply one coat of Nu Finish today, then yes you would definitely have to wash your PT in 30 days but since Nu Finish is only a mid grade wax the first coat will have evaporated and pretty much lost all of its protective qualities already so you would be due for a fresh coat anyway.

I hope that kinda sorta answers your questions. If you would like to learn more about Detailing, please check out my Detailing Guide which walks you through the complete process step by step to make your PT look like new. Just click on the Link below and if you have any more questions just let me know and I would be more than happy to help out any way I can.
__________________

Check out my Custom PT Club Website: http://westvalleyforum.proboards.com/index.cgi
And my ever growing PT Photo Archives: http://s458.photobucket.com/albums/q...uiserArchives/

Please Like my Hot Rod Restoration and Detail Shop on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/BlueDiamondDetailing
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11 Sep 2010, 08:09 pm
Fanatic Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina, USA.
Posts: 884
Default Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

And don't forget the clay bar.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2010, 01:07 am
cruserdad1976's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: st james mo
Posts: 8,217
Default Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

you know i wasn't to much sold on that clay bar thing i thought its just another gimmick but i bought my mom's RED Pontiac Gran Am which as far as I know had never been washed or waxed and i washed it really good and then did the clay bar thing if the goal is to make it way smoother well i got ta say it really works one other thing as i was working it up you could see the Brightness come back the paint looks fresh and it has a nice deep bright look to it yes it took a bunch of time but the end result is pretty sweet
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2010, 07:55 am
leftoverture's Avatar
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lester Prairie, MN
Posts: 35
Default Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyman View Post
Most waxes last between 30 - 60 days max before needing re-application under most circumstances. This means that if you were to apply one coat of Nu Finish today, then yes you would definitely have to wash your PT in 30 days but since Nu Finish is only a mid grade wax the first coat will have evaporated and pretty much lost all of its protective qualities already so you would be due for a fresh coat anyway.
Actually, that is not correct. Nu Finish is not a "wax" at all, it is a polymer-based product that will last as long as or generally longer than any carnuba wax in terms of protective qualities. It actually chemically bonds to the paint and the reason for the 30 days between coats is that the first layer actually "cures" during that time (actually - depending on how thick it's originally applied - some of it will cure to the paint and some will wash away, as only so much can cure at a time) and the second coating fills in missed areas and, because the first coat is fully cured, ultimately provides a thicker, more even coating.

Nu Finish and similar polymer products may not quite develop the shine a true wax will, but it's protective qualities last a very long time - maybe 4-5 months depending on environment and how often the car is washed. In the harsh winters of MN, polymer based protectants are my preferred choice as the car won't be getting detailed between October and April. Over the last few years many new automotive detailing products have come on the market and lots of them are polymer based. That's because polymer chemistry can be engineered to reduce the size of the molecules and to give them many unique properties. Polymer based products generally last longer than true waxes because of their ability to actually bond to the paint.

One thing is certain, though, the more often you wash your car and apply a protectant to the surface, the better it will look and the longer it will look nice. That is important for me as my cars are 9 years old (Cruiser) and 15 years old (Park Avenue) and I like keeping them looking nice as I never buy new cars.
__________________
2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2010, 08:16 am
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 18
Default Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

Thanks for your answers. I'm glad you answered, leftoverture, because like you I can only wash the car once, maybe twice, in the winter, and that's at a local bay because we can't have our outside water hooked up during the winter. So I need the wax to last and shine is a secondary concern. I'm glad to know I can hopefully make it through the winter now.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2010, 11:43 am
Candyman's Avatar
Dedicated Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hemet CA
Posts: 2,316
Send a message via Yahoo to Candyman
Smile Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

Hey their leftoverture,

I thank you for your very well thought out post, and you are correct in that Nu Finish is actually almost wax free in content.

The problem which I should have been a bit more specific on when I was mentioning protection qualities is that in the product formulation for Nu Finish according to documentation and data sheets, the Acrylic Polymer with ACUSOL 820 water emulsion used is only 1.2% by weight of the product which is very low in overall content with 25% hydrocarbon solvent which is a type of mineral spirit which basically means the protective Polymer content is very limited with a high dilution rate which is pretty much the standard for the majority of liquid bottled products. This is mostly due in part to both cost effectiveness of the product from a consumer standpoint as well as ease of application. Nu Finish does have a couple of different types of resins and fillers which will act much like a glaze enhancing color, and providing slightly higher gloss, but also contains a mild micro-abrasive in the form of a silica type powder which is designed to remove surface material much like Compound does in order to create a smooth top coat for the polymer and resins to bond to. In this case, using a Clay Bar would be a more preferable method before applying Nu Finish as you can more safely remove and parasitic contamination from the paint surface without the removal of any paint surface material which is always better whenever possible.

As for waiting 30 days between application for proper curing, their are no known polymers synthetic base, natural base, or other that is currently available on the market which requires more than 24 - 48 hours to properly cure to any type of Automotive paint surface. In fact the only wait time I know of that requires a 30 day period is when dealing with fresh paint so I am a bit confused as to why the 30 day cure time for their low content polymer as their is nothing special or different about the chemical being used, or any real reasoning behind it based on my detailing chemical mixing background. I even consulted a friend of mine and Detailing chemical engineer for a second opinion and he is also not aware of any chemical substrates currently on the market that would have this length of cure time. So that one I can't tell you, but I see no good reason for it.

As for longevity of Nu Finish, the formulation shows a melting point of 155 degrees Fahrenheit which essentially means the protective qualities of the Polymer will evaporate once your paint reaches slightly above the melting temperature which is inherently the problem with many lower level polymers and paint sealants as a whole. The left over resins should act as a thin barrier for generally 30 - 60 days maximum as a whole before they break down to the point where the paint will start to begin a gradual deterioration process. You can try to slow the chemical breakdown to some degree by washing with a soap that has a very low PH Balance as to try to avoid removal of as little chemical as possible from the surface.

If you wait several months between application and go to apply a new coat the Nu Finish should produce a significant improvement in color, depth, and gloss especially on darker colors. If the product truly lasted for 5-6 months then their should be no visual difference of improvement under any circumstances as the finish would not have deteriorated.

Most Consumer based products are designed to be safe for everyone to use with minimal risk to ones paint which is totally understandable and in many cases the responsible thing to do as you can easily damage your paint with medium to heavy compounds without much problem. Most Consumer Products also have a very low content of chemicals and protectants in their formulation in order to keep costs down in order to compete in the market which again also makes sense. Unfortunately their is a lot of marketing ploys out there, and a lot of misinformation on various products which in reality are more gimmick than actual real helpful product. At the end of the day, honestly their just is no $10.00 miracle cure for paint protection.

Their are Commercially available Chemicals that will give you 6 months worth of real protection but unfortunately they range in price from $44.00 to $270.00 per bottle and up and many require special applications to create a proper molecular bond with the paint surface which usually involves using a polymer accelerate and a uniform heat source up to temperatures above 250 degrees Fahrenheit to literally help bake and cure the synthetic resin into a hard shell over the finish. .

Many high end detailers tend to stay away from any type of long term paint sealants if they can help it due in part to not only the inherent factors relating to low evaporation temperature rates on many chemical substrates, but also hard shell synthetic polymers which do provide long term protection can seal the paint in allowing the paint to fade and deteriorate under the sealant via ultraviolet rays and other atmospheric conditions as well as not allow the paint to breathe properly.

Please keep in mind that I am not trying by any means to knock Nu Finish in any way, and as long as you are happy with the results, then above all, that is all that matters. I am simply trying to provide better education on protection for your paint.

Again, I thank you leftoverture for your well written response.

If either of you would like any product recommendations to provide longer term protection through the winter months where it is understandably difficult to wash and maintain your vehicles cosmetic appearance as well as a chemical that will not cause any harm to your paint, please let me know and I would be more than happy to try to advise in any way I can any time.
__________________

Check out my Custom PT Club Website: http://westvalleyforum.proboards.com/index.cgi
And my ever growing PT Photo Archives: http://s458.photobucket.com/albums/q...uiserArchives/

Please Like my Hot Rod Restoration and Detail Shop on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/BlueDiamondDetailing
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2010, 08:17 pm
leftoverture's Avatar
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Lester Prairie, MN
Posts: 35
Default Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

Candyman, what are your thoughts on Zaino products? I used them when I had my Vette. It proved durable, but then my Vette sat in the garage most of the time and rarely saw inclement weather. I didn't think it had any better shine than other waxes I've used such as Meguiars, Mothers, etc. Just wondering what you think of it? And what would you recommend for a daily driver about to be subjected to 5-6 months of snow, salt, ice, and cold?
__________________
2001 PT Cruiser Limited Edition
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 13 Sep 2010, 08:04 am
quicksilverdon's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Felton, Delaware
Posts: 20,501
Default Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

I agree with Leftoverture. I used NuFinish for a while after reading a consumer mag test of numerous waxes/polishes. It really lasts.
I found DuPont Teflon Car wax even better at long life - tar, bird crap, bugs, all come off easily. a rain is like a car wash.
__________________
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life,
nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
Isaac Asimov"

'05 Limited Turbo Lite, (Silver, of course)4-wheel ABS, Sunroof, Spoiler. Mods: E&G Classic grill, K&N FIPK, BTG duals, rear lowered 1.5", LED washer lights, $20 catch can, Aoogah horn, Weatherflectors, Sunroof Deflector, Fuzzy Dice, rear logo flames, rear pinstripe graphic, Gen3 Taillights, rear sway bar, hood struts, Strut bar.
Traded in '02 Silver Touring Edition w/87,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 13 Sep 2010, 10:08 am
Candyman's Avatar
Dedicated Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Hemet CA
Posts: 2,316
Send a message via Yahoo to Candyman
Smile Re: A stupid Nu Finish question

Hey their leftoverture,

Interestingly enough, wax only provides a very small part when it comes to improving gloss and depth on a vehicles finish. Most types of wax or polymers provide more of a protective barrier to preserve the paint surface. To achieve better gloss you really need to properly prep and polish the paint before applying the final coat of wax or sealant which generally should include Compound and Glaze. Here is a bit more about both.

Compound

1. A type of finishing compound, depending on the condition of the paint generally you want to go with a fine cut which is the least abrasive and recommended on most all newer finishes. Compounding can be done by hand but is more effective by applying it using a low speed buffer at no more than 1000 rpm and either a small assortment of foam pads, or a wool cutting pad which adds just enough friction to properly buff your paint without risk of damage. Any more than 1000 rpm and the risk of burning paint goes way up if you are not experienced in using a high speed rotary buffer. Also if you plan on using a rotary buffer at low rpm, you still will want to be sure to mask off all edges of your vehicle's panel's where paint is generally thinner than all other surfaces, as well as windows, wipers, door handles, and so on which otherwise will take a significant amount of time to go back and clean up the residue and buffing dust left over from the buffer The basic function behind buffing with compound is this. Lack of high gloss in paint is usually produced by scratching from day to day wear and tear, and swirl marks which comes from a number of factors from being exposed to outside environmental impact as well as even washing your vehicle. The bigger , and less uniform the scratching, the worse the gloss will be. Compound contains a silica micro-abrasive much like an ultra fine powder mixed in a solution of other resins and fillers to create soft easy to use product. The micro-abrasive used in conjunction with a rotary buffer at low RPM breaks up the surface of the paint removing oxidized or dead paint, removes minor defects from the surface, and replaces larger inconsistent scratches, swirl marks, and so on with much smaller scale micro scratching on a much more uniform and consistent level thus improving clarity and producing a higher gloss. The smaller and more refined the micro-scratching, the higher the gloss. Even if you are positive your paint is flawless, I can almost guarantee their are scratches and haze holding it back from its true potential. To see all of these scratches and swirls, take a high powered hand held flood light for best results, or park directly under a florescent light and very closely inspect the paint surface. The paint should be a perfect reflection with no marks or swirls of any kind reflecting back.

To give you an idea of how paint can look alright but ultimately be affected by scratching, here is an 54 Olds 88 In the first pic the paint doesn't look too bad until you look at it at a different angle where the reflection shows the scratching and marring which is taking away a good portion of gloss and depth. This is a good candidate for a light duty compound and coat of glaze to bring the paint back to where it should be before moving on to applying protection in the form of either a Polymer, or a Carnuba Wax. Always remember a good wax job is only as good as the paint underneath. In this case the paint work was corrected by several friends on a Saturday over at Meguiar's Corporate Headquarters in Irvine CA. The last pic is during finishing up of the hood.







Now lets move on to Glaze which is the next step in the process.


Glaze


2. A good Glaze which is a chemical that contains both resins which help fill in small scratches and swirl marks and also contains various oils and nutrients which in a sense feeds the paint allowing for better light refraction and higher gloss from further refining micro-scratching, swirls, and other minor imperfections in the paint surface. Most Glazes can be layered in multiple applications as needed to perfect the paint if necessary. Glaze can be applied either by hand or machine. The application usually consists of applying product to the surface area, allow to set up for 3-5 minutes depending on ambient temperature which will effect chemical drying times and then buff off with a clean microfiber towel.

After a light Compounding or "Cutting" as its called in the industry, and applying a coat of Glaze, this is what the paint should look like. Notice the improvment in depth and clarity. This is before adding any type of protection to the paint surface.




Now as for protecting paint for extended periods of time during the harsh winter environment, their are a couple of options you could go with. As far as Consumer Products which are effective without being overly expensive, I am kind of partial to Meguiar's as I have a long history with them and have many good friends who are a big part of the Meguiar's family over there so they are at the top of my list. Here are the Meguiar's products I would recommend.

Meguiar's

#2 Fine Cut Compound:
Meguiar's Direct Fine Cut Cleaner
#7 Show Car Glaze
Meguiar's Direct Show Car Glaze -
#21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0
Meguiar's Direct Mirror Glaze Synthetic Sealant 2.0

For these products, I would apply 2 coats of Glaze followed by 2 coats of Sealant to build enough of a barrier against the elements. If you would like to add one additional step that would further add to your protection and enhance your gloss, you can opt to apply any good Paste Wax over the top of the Sealant. This can be from Meguiar's or any other of your favorite Paste Type Waxes available. If you would like my recommendation I would go with something like

Meguiar's NXT Generation® Tech Wax® 2.0 Paste
Meguiar's Direct NXT Generation® Tech Wax® 2.0 Paste

Mothers Polishes

Mothers PowerPolish Stage 1
Mothers PowerPolish Stage 1
Mothers California Gold Sealer and Glaze
Mothers California Gold Sealer and Glaze
Mothers Reflections Advanced Top Coat Polymer
http://classic-motoring.stores.yahoo...readtopco.html

For added gloss you can apply Mothers yellow Carnuba soft paste wax over the top of the Polymer. SO here is the Link to Mothers Carnuba as well as added protection. In this case I would recommend 2 coats of Polymer and 2 coats of Carnuba applied in 24 hour intervals over a 4 day period and you should be good for the Winter season.

Mothers California Gold Carnauba Pure Waxes
Mothers California Gold Carnauba Pure Waxes

Either of those should be better for what you would are looking for. Their are also a few more expensive commercially available Paint Sealants which are also synthetic with a higher volume of 30% Polymer that have a 6 month to 1 year warranty though most warranties if you would like I can recommend a couple of those as well but like I had mentioned before, most Detailers try to stay away from the full on paint sealants as much as possible for a variety of reasons.

If you have any more questions, please let me know and I would be more than happy to answer them anytime.
__________________

Check out my Custom PT Club Website: http://westvalleyforum.proboards.com/index.cgi
And my ever growing PT Photo Archives: http://s458.photobucket.com/albums/q...uiserArchives/

Please Like my Hot Rod Restoration and Detail Shop on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/BlueDiamondDetailing

Last edited by Candyman; 13 Sep 2010 at 10:17 am.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stupid Question?? parker2004pt General PT Cruiser Discussions 4 24 Oct 2008 08:57 am
Really stupid question....... thegoldpt General PT Cruiser Discussions 15 09 Nov 2005 01:49 pm
Stupid question umaxman General PT Cruiser Discussions 11 18 Jun 2004 09:38 pm
Stupid question. PTucker Stage Turbo Kits 3 08 Dec 2003 08:17 pm
stupid question MustangDave General PT Cruiser Discussions 6 16 Nov 2002 08:59 pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 pm.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors