PT Cruiser Forum  
Advertisements
       

Go Back   PT Cruiser Forum > General Forums > General PT Cruiser Discussions

PT Cruiser Forum

Advertisements
misfire on cyl 4.

 
Like Tree3Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 07:37 am
mdskinner731's Avatar
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: central new york state (315)
Posts: 333
Default misfire on cyl 4.

driving home last night i was goofing around. nothing different than i normally do, speeding, horsing on the car to get up to speed. all of a sudden my CEL came on, flashed 4 or 5 times, shut off. ok?? weird, then the light came on again. flashed 4 or 5 times again, then the car shut off?? i pulled over did the "key dance" as always P1684 (battery disco) and the new code P0304 (cly 4 mis fire)

long story short i limped her home :-/ and am baffeled that it happened.
any guess as to what it could be??

tonight i'm pulling her into the garage doing a compression test/ changing all 4 plugs; checking the wires/replacing the coil. (bye bye MSD coil for now)

sounds bad BUT i'm hoping that it is the coil because i have 2 extra OEM's on the shelf...
reason being i do have a header on the car, and after market coils (on these cars) are prone to permature failure due to heat.
__________________
if it moves and not supposed to... duct tape!!!
if it dont move and is supposed to... WD-40!!!
~* the problem with america is warning labels.... take them off of every thing and eventually the stupid people will die off... *~
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 10:05 am
Busted_PT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Beckley, W.V.
Posts: 13,901
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdskinner731 View Post
driving home last night i was goofing around. nothing different than i normally do, speeding, horsing on the car to get up to speed. all of a sudden my CEL came on, flashed 4 or 5 times, shut off. ok?? weird, then the light came on again. flashed 4 or 5 times again, then the car shut off?? i pulled over did the "key dance" as always P1684 (battery disco) and the new code P0304 (cly 4 mis fire)

long story short i limped her home :-/ and am baffeled that it happened.
any guess as to what it could be??

tonight i'm pulling her into the garage doing a compression test/ changing all 4 plugs; checking the wires/replacing the coil. (bye bye MSD coil for now)

sounds bad BUT i'm hoping that it is the coil because i have 2 extra OEM's on the shelf...
reason being i do have a header on the car, and after market coils (on these cars) are prone to permature failure due to heat.
There are also word that msd was the supplyer of the oem coils. Question, why so quick to eliminate the wires? And whats up with the P1684? I know what it for but why would you be expecting it to be there?
__________________

03 Dream stock___________________________ 04 Touring turbo lite stock_________ 02 Touring stock_____________________ The "Three Amigos"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________Performance, Body and Service, OEM

This Is my project page.
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/...oject-1-a.html

This is a great read from one of our own! Badglas
badglas.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 10:38 am
NitroPT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA kalyfornia
Posts: 15,973
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdskinner731 View Post
driving home last night i was goofing around. nothing different than i normally do, speeding, horsing on the car to get up to speed. all of a sudden my CEL came on, flashed 4 or 5 times, shut off. ok?? weird, then the light came on again. flashed 4 or 5 times again, then the car shut off?? i pulled over did the "key dance" as always P1684 (battery disco) and the new code P0304 (cly 4 mis fire)

long story short i limped her home :-/ and am baffeled that it happened.
any guess as to what it could be??

Compression test will be good make sure you open the throttle body completely. When removing or replacing ignition wires always twist and lightly pull on the plug and coil ends NOT the wire. Test the ohm with w digital meter. looking at the spark plugs is useless unless you have one that is damaged because once you change the engine speed or combustion perimeters it completely changes the plugs readable results. Your engine code most likely did not happen during idling. Naturally I always recommend to clear the codes restart the engine and se what code re appear.

tonight i'm pulling her into the garage doing a compression test/ changing all 4 plugs; checking the wires/replacing the coil. (bye bye MSD coil for now)

sounds bad BUT i'm hoping that it is the coil because i have 2 extra OEM's on the shelf...
reason being i do have a header on the car, and after market coils (on these cars) are prone to premature failure due to heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
There are also word that msd was the suppler of the oem coils. Question, why so quick to eliminate the wires? And whats up with the P1684? I know what it for but why would you be expecting it to be there?

Not directed at the op but a general rant about an old subject
More MSD coil misinformation being read and spread!
It was a rumor spread by a bunch of **children that really should not have been working on there own vehicles to begin with!!

This is as bad as the the myth that placing a modern battery on the cement will discharge it. Neither is true. If your PT was still running it ain't the coil.

BTW in every forum I participate on where this BS about a MSD coil has come up no one to date has said anything but "my friend had", "I herd it" and I read that" MSD coils in 4 cyd. specifically Turbo application vehicles were not good?
I am still waiting after some 10 years for someone to show me a real failed MSD coil pack under the mentioned applications !!

The funny thing is that ACCEL do not have the same stupid unsubstantiated comments about failing as the MSD and yet they are exactly the specifications and material coil with the only difference is the Thermal plastic color that of Yellow?

I know what MSD has for warranty returns on these model coils and 99% that were claimed defective either worked fine, looked like it went through a war and worked fine or that one that did not function had broken/cracked cases next to the were the fastener goes showing that they were **over tightened.

To the op.... an old style oil cooled coil may fail because of heat because of being in close proximity to an exhaust manifold such as a Header but a transformer style coil in the OEM location that replaces the stock coil exactly will have no better chance of failing then the OEM coil. In other words your header in the OEM location on the valve cover did not harm the coil!
__________________
To view larger pictures simply "click " on the picture!

Dalai Lama
"Share you knowledge. It's the best way to achieve immortality."
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN

Last edited by NitroPT; 20 Dec 2012 at 11:00 am.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 10:55 am
NitroPT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA kalyfornia
Posts: 15,973
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

Compression tests should be performed with the throttle body completely open.
Count and duplicate how many revolution the engine rotates and duplicate that with each remaining cylinders

Spark plug wire to be checked should be careful removed by twisting slightly the boot ends not the wires so as not to damage them. A use of a Digital volt/ohm gauge is generally the most accurate way to test them off the engine.


Spark plug reading are not in any way accurate when a code rises if the engine during the code had changed engine speeds. Which is pretty much always. You really only can look for a damaged spark plug under these circumstances.
A spark plug reading can only accurate and successfully be performed at the engine speed concerned with. During that speed the engine must be shut down without changing the throttle position or engine load in order to see what the burn reading is on the spark plug. Letting the engine de-accelerating or idle completely changes the spark plug reading.

I generally will clear all the codes and re start the engine to see what codes reappear. Occasionally under certain condition anomalies can occur that the ECU/PCM will post codes. By clearing them and restarted you rule out false codes.

The "key" dance is never and not the best way to view ECU/PCM engine codes.
__________________
To view larger pictures simply "click " on the picture!

Dalai Lama
"Share you knowledge. It's the best way to achieve immortality."
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN

Last edited by NitroPT; 20 Dec 2012 at 10:58 am.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 11:30 am
2step's Avatar
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New Braunfels, Texas.
Posts: 1,672
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

You certainly can switch in one of the coils you have on hand easily enough to test...... but I agree with Nitro that IF there ever was a MSD problem, it's with a few booger eating morons on the SRT4 forum and not with the coils.

Here's something that actually happened to me that you can check. My #4 plug wire was looping up and contacting the throttlebody causing the high voltage spark to arch through the insulation and ground out without ever reaching the plug. I changed to a new wire but I noticed it also contacted the TB. So I took a short section of thick rubber hose, slit that and slipped it over the plug wire as an extra insulator where the wire was contacting the TB. Fixed/done.
Busted_PT and NitroPT like this.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 11:51 am
mdskinner731's Avatar
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: central new york state (315)
Posts: 333
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
There are also word that msd was the supplyer of the oem coils. Question, why so quick to eliminate the wires? And whats up with the P1684? I know what it for but why would you be expecting it to be there?
wires i have not ruled out as a possibility in my mind. sorry i guess i forgot to mention them on my original post.

anywhoo.. they are the MAGSTAR 8.8mm wires. and it is a possibility that they (or just cyl4) are (is) bad

and the P1684 for some reason ALWAS shows up when i do the key dance?
it almost failed my car on the NYS inspection.
__________________
if it moves and not supposed to... duct tape!!!
if it dont move and is supposed to... WD-40!!!
~* the problem with america is warning labels.... take them off of every thing and eventually the stupid people will die off... *~
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 12:13 pm
NitroPT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA kalyfornia
Posts: 15,973
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

WireTec that makes the MAGSTAR wire sets has quite a ohms variance?
Reactive Core Conductors
Wire-wound from 100 ohms/ft to 5000 ohms/ft


Hmm.....I would defiantly check them wires out?
__________________
To view larger pictures simply "click " on the picture!

Dalai Lama
"Share you knowledge. It's the best way to achieve immortality."
ASE MASTER TECHNICIAN
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 02:33 pm
Busted_PT's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Beckley, W.V.
Posts: 13,901
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdskinner731 View Post
wires i have not ruled out as a possibility in my mind. sorry i guess i forgot to mention them on my original post.

anywhoo.. they are the MAGSTAR 8.8mm wires. and it is a possibility that they (or just cyl4) are (is) bad

and the P1684 for some reason ALWAS shows up when i do the key dance?
it almost failed my car on the NYS inspection.
That code normally only shows up if the battery has been disconnected with in so many starts or something like that. I was just thinking that there could of been a loss of power that might have contributed to the miss. But if you've had that all along then maybe not. Given the others posts the wire or plug would be most likely.
__________________

03 Dream stock___________________________ 04 Touring turbo lite stock_________ 02 Touring stock_____________________ The "Three Amigos"
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________Performance, Body and Service, OEM

This Is my project page.
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/...oject-1-a.html

This is a great read from one of our own! Badglas
badglas.blogspot.com
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 04:23 pm
mdskinner731's Avatar
Cool Cruiser
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: central new york state (315)
Posts: 333
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
That code normally only shows up if the battery has been disconnected with in so many starts or something like that. I was just thinking that there could of been a loss of power that might have contributed to the miss. But if you've had that all along then maybe not. Given the others posts the wire or plug would be most likely.
i for some reason have gut feeling that there is more wrong than that.
dunno why but time will tell. untill this weekend i am stuck driving a battleship on wheels 2002 gmc 2500 ext cab 8ft box 6.0HO. at a whole whopping 12mpg costs 30 dollars a day just to get to work and back home
__________________
if it moves and not supposed to... duct tape!!!
if it dont move and is supposed to... WD-40!!!
~* the problem with america is warning labels.... take them off of every thing and eventually the stupid people will die off... *~
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2012, 04:55 pm
Ray_Dockrey's Avatar
Senior Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Mustang, OK
Posts: 1,213
Default Re: misfire on cyl 4.

If none of the other suggestions fix the issue check the seals on the intake manifold. They seem to like to leak on that side and it will cause a miss. You can spray some WD-40 or throttle body cleaner around the seals and if the idle picks up you know where the issue is.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Misfire GT_Jeff General Turbo Discussions 12 28 Jun 2012 09:53 pm
Misfire pntbalr Tech & Performance Forum 5 05 Dec 2009 09:45 pm
misfire Carl48 Tech & Performance Forum 11 04 Aug 2009 12:09 pm
70 mph misfire? zzzhuh General PT Cruiser Discussions 9 06 Jul 2004 10:09 am
misfire onyx pt Turbo Performance 3 19 Sep 2003 04:49 pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:41 am.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2 © 2011, Crawlability, Inc.
vB.Sponsors