2.4l Loping Idle...

[Breezer]

So, here's a curveball for you guys: I've got a 1999 Plymouth Breeze with the 2.4L engine, which, from what i understand, is the same as the engine in the PT. Seeing that the PT is a MUCH more popular car, i figure i can get more help here than from the other forums about the Breeze... Try not to shun me for being weird

Anyway, bought the car for $550 with a rough idle, and some misfires while driving. Figured "Eh, not a big deal. Probably a sensor or something." I knew the MAP sensor was bad, so replaced that... No change. So, dug around some more... Timing had jumped 5 teeth off, so we replaced the timing belt, tensioner, and idler (water pump was in good condition and looked pretty new as well) with a Gates set. Also replaced both drive belts. Helped tremendously, as the car can now drive, will GO when i hit the gas, and doesn't die at every redlight.

It's still idling funny, though. But not consistently. It's a kind of loping idle... It'll sit nice and pretty at 750rpm, and then suddenly bounce from 750 to 850. Car appears to be in time, and coil pack is good, as well as new plugs and wires. Swapped coil packs with a known working one anyway, and no change. Compression is fantastic, at 190-210 between cylinders. (I forget the exact numbers) Replaced the cam sensor, and no change... Replaced the TPS, and also no change. (TPS is reporting 14% throttle with the blade all the way closed... Is this normal? Same TPS as the PT, i believe) The ONLY sensor i haven't replaced is the crank sensor, and i'd rather not have to pull the tire and fender well back off to get to that, but if you guys think that's a likely cause, i'll go for it. I'm not seeing codes besides running rich.

When it starts cold, it'll idle up to 1500 or so, and runs AMAZINGLY smooth. Then as it starts to settle in, it gets progressively worse. Also, if i gun it, around 4500RPM, it'll start to miss every now and then. Usually gets through first cleanly, but with the load of second it misses every now and then, and then third is pretty rough.

Sorry for the long post about a car i'm sure you guys don't care about, but i really am running about of ideas... About to take it to the dealer and give them $100 to check it out and tell me what's wrong with it, but i really don't have the money for that.


EDIT: Unplugging the TPS causes the idle to go WAY up towards 2K rpm, and barely tapping the gas with the TPS plugged in does the same... Bad wiring, maybe? Or maybe bad computer?

[pt06]

Breeze; check for a vacuum leak, change pcv valve, recheck timing marks, Mpoar cam sensor works best and change magnet behind it.

Also, check codes!

[Breezer]

Found the issue, i believe.

Dug around, and the more i listened and drove, the more it felt like bad timing. No vacuum leaks, all sensor good, and only code was that it was running rich, and there were cam/crank sensor errors that would come up if i stayed on the floor.

Pulled the cover off, and then put a timing light on it... and.... 2 teeth off. My friend lined it up, and looked at the marks from above the engine, instead of plum to the side of it. So it looked in time, even though it wasn't. It's timing to the intake camshaft, which means the exhaust cam is 2 teeth behind when the spark happens... I guess this is what i get for letting other people work on my car for me.

Going to take it apart friday and fix everything...

I'm sure i'll have more questions for you guys in the future, though. Seems like a very active community here, which is just what i need.

[pt06]

TIMING LIGHT ???

[Breezer]

Yeah... The flashing light that you put on a spark plug wire to check timing marks while the engine is running.

Got everything fixed, and it runs much smoother now. Still not perfect... Seems a little rough in gear, compared to the S10, but i'm just thinking that's me not entirely used to a four cylinder.

So if your car runs like crap after a timing job, check the timing again and see how much you screwed it up

[pt06]

Breeze; what are you shooting the timing light at?