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2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 13 Jun 2013, 01:34 am
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Default 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

Hi guys!

So, me and my Breeze are back... Same engine that you guys are used to, but not 100% sure if the transmission is the same.
Anywho, 2.4l non-turbo DOHC.

So, if i give the car gas and just drive around town like a normal grandma, it does pretty well. Stays in closed loop, and shifts smoothly, and doesn't seem to lack power at all. Now if i drive it like i would like to, which is much more aggressive than grandma, it gets weird... It's still fine, up until about 4500RPM, at which point, the car doesn't speed up as fast, and it seems like the engine is just spinning, but not really getting any power to the wheels... This happens all the way up to 6500RPM, where it'll then shift into the next gear and (which a lurch) start accelerating pretty quickly again.

A little history on the car since i got it... Guy in a city near me was setting it for $500, so i went ahead and got it, as i needed wheels. It was immediatly obvious the car needed a transmission fluid flush due to HORRIBLE gas mileage, and obvious slipping under any real acceleration, and the fluid was also a nice shade of black... I'm guessing it was never changed. I went ahead and drained the fluid, replaced the filter, cleaned up the magnet, and then filler her back up with Mopar ATF+4. Now the fluid looks better (Yellow, vs black, so still not great), and it drives much better in the low range. It still does mostly the same thing at high RPM, though... I'm planning on changing the fluid again this weekend, to try and get it to be more red, but i'm wondering if that will really do anything, or if i'm lacking something else.

The car has had a timing belt replaced, new spark plugs, new map sensor, new throttle position sensor, and a few cans of sea foam down the intake to clean all the gunk out that was built up while it was running super rich due to the previous timing belt slipping. The car runs like a champ now, and the only real issue i notice is this one. Anyone have any clues what it might be?

Just treat it as if it was a PT, because for the most part, it is, just in a different body
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Old 13 Jun 2013, 01:48 am
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

When you seviced the trans did you make sure you flushed the line and the trans cooler? If not all that crap just went right back into the trans. I'd take it to a shop and let them do a proper flush. Good luck.
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Old 13 Jun 2013, 03:19 am
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

Breeze; check the rpm at 65 mph on a level road. It should be 2300-2500 rpm at about 1/8 throttle. Push gas pedal down about 1/2 way, it should accelerate slowly and the rpm should rise slowly. This tells you the lock-up torque converter is working.

If the tranny is slipping, you'll get a p0700 code by doing the key dance.

Last edited by pt06; 13 Jun 2013 at 03:22 am.
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Old 15 Jun 2013, 05:46 pm
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

Quote:
Originally Posted by needmoretoys View Post
When you seviced the trans did you make sure you flushed the line and the trans cooler? If not all that crap just went right back into the trans. I'd take it to a shop and let them do a proper flush. Good luck.
Actually didn't do a flush, as i was advised to just change the fluid a few times to prevent possibly damaging the transmission by getting it "too clean."

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt06 View Post
Breeze; check the rpm at 65 mph on a level road. It should be 2300-2500 rpm at about 1/8 throttle. Push gas pedal down about 1/2 way, it should accelerate slowly and the rpm should rise slowly. This tells you the lock-up torque converter is working.

If the tranny is slipping, you'll get a p0700 code by doing the key dance.
That looks to be about what i usually see at 65, and it behaves much like that... I also noted that at 75, it rides right around 3K.
There aren't any codes, last i checked. I'll go check and make sure, though... Would it throw that code even if it only slips under hard acceleration?

Also, my scanner is always showing at least 15% throttle, and even with my foot ALL the way down, it doesn't go above 80%. Checked voltage out of the TPS, and it's all in spec... Is this normal? I'm used to GM Vehicles showing 0 to 100% throttle position, but i'm not sure if Chrysler vehicles are the same.

Last edited by Breezer; 15 Jun 2013 at 05:54 pm.
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Old 15 Jun 2013, 06:29 pm
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

Could be the catalytic converter is going bad and partially blocked.
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Old 15 Jun 2013, 06:36 pm
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

You say the trans fluid is now "yellow vs black". What are you using for trans fluid? Event he Breeze should take the recommended ATF+4 trans fluid and it's dark Pink/red in color. I'd change it with the recommended fluid a few more times or do the whole flush and get all that old stuff/wrong stuff out of there.
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Old 17 Jun 2013, 02:45 am
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

Breeze; an interesting possibility given by Ray. The 0700 code should pop if it happens 3 times [I think] in a row.

The tranny filter could be mostly blocked and starving the pump at high rpms. This would cause slippage.
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Old 24 Jun 2013, 12:57 am
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
You say the trans fluid is now "yellow vs black". What are you using for trans fluid? Event he Breeze should take the recommended ATF+4 trans fluid and it's dark Pink/red in color. I'd change it with the recommended fluid a few more times or do the whole flush and get all that old stuff/wrong stuff out of there.
So, when i got the car, the fluid was so bad that it was basically black. Did a change, and gave it a good while to drip out, and then it was yellow (i guess from the mixture of the old ATF+3 and new Mopar ATF+4). Just changed it today (and created a leak in the pan; oops) and it's looking a very nice shade of red. Just because the pan needs to be dropped to fix the leak, i'm going to change it AGAIN near the end of this week, since i have a lot of driving this week to mix the fluid together. It seems to behave much better at high RPM, but it still has more power when cold...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt06 View Post
Breeze; an interesting possibility given by Ray. The 0700 code should pop if it happens 3 times [I think] in a row.

The tranny filter could be mostly blocked and starving the pump at high rpms. This would cause slippage.
Filter was replaced with fluid change, and replaced again today. When i changed the fluid today, i saw next to no metal on the magnet or in the fluid, vs before where everything was coated in a VERY fine metal powder. (150K on the previous fluid)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_Dockrey View Post
Could be the catalytic converter is going bad and partially blocked.
Also something i thought of as possible... Is there any easy way to check for that?

While watching my ultraguage during normal driving, i'm seeing that it'll randomly go into open loop... In my GM vehicle, i'm used to only going into Open Loop when engine temp is below 60F, or at 100% throttle. This car seems to be basing open loop off of RPM, but i can't find any sure pattern... Half throttle can trigger it sometimes, but other times i may have to sink my foot into the floor. Does anyone know how Open Loop is decided?

Last edited by Breezer; 24 Jun 2013 at 01:08 am.
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Old 24 Jun 2013, 01:25 am
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

If you check your fluid and it is dark brown or worse Black. That means the fluid is burned. You need to flush the system. Most of your fluid is in the torque converter not in the pan.

One thing could be your pump. Under hard acceleration it isnt pumping properly. You would get exactly what your describing. Burned fluid can/will wear the pump out quick. Basically had no lube. When the car is cool, the fluid is thicker. As it warms up the fluid gets thinner. So the worn pump doesnt work as good.

Try getting Lucas transmission additive. May help some. It is thicker and may help it pump better.
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Old 24 Jun 2013, 01:49 am
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Default Re: 2.4l No Power Past 4500RPM

breeze; the fluid should never be yellow. ATF+3 is red.

A half-plugged converter would cause power loss at high rpm, but I'd think that the computer would show an o2 sensor code?

Has your mileage improved?

Open loop question requires many things to happen at once. You need a computer to keep track of them all! [sorry]. The MAP sensor and the throttle position sensor and RPM sensor are likely the main ones.
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