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OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09 Jan 2014, 11:38 am
kctobyjoe's Avatar
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Default OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Since MOST of the guys here are NOT adolescescents and REMEBER what Premium Gas from AMACO *really was* I need to get some serious opinions on what octane to use on my 2006 stock Crusier

Since I got it I have placed >1000 miles and filled up consistently with 92 or 93 octane...still in itself a JOKE

Today's 87 octane wouldn't even run a 1970's lawn mower yet a high tech L4 or higher.

FWIW I own a TORO lawn mower and THEY suggest to run premium and that is what I do...for a LAWN MOWER!!!

I do not want ANY pinging; ANY detonation...that is not good at ALL. SO...what is the consensus? 89 octane here is 'midgrade' 92 or 93 is usually premium; 87 garbage gas is regular

Other than using additives which is not part of the is thread...what's the deal?

kctobyjoe
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 11:51 am
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Lots of opinions on this question often brought up on forums.....Turbo Charged engine should be running 91 or higher octane. Additives have been constantly shown not to work. Some people with Turbo Charged engines post that they do not need the higher octane fuel because they drive easy and never get into boost from the Turbo Charger. Unless you have a boost gauge showing what your boost levels are you don't know when you get into boost and the responses claiming other wise are inaccurate. Even easy driving you can get into the lower boost levels without knowing it.

Unless individuals have a way to monitor the OBDII output values then they have NO idea what they are talking about what is going on with the engine running lower then recommended octane fuels.

You would need to see at least your ignition timing and knock voltage to see if the fuel you choose is causing your engine to struggle with it. A more complete way of getting information would also be to view EGTs and AFRs. Naturally a power pull and reading of spark plugs to confirm all the data from the sensor information.

Detonation, pre-ignition or "pinging" is going on long before the human ear can hear it happening.

Users claiming their engines run well on lower octane fuels then recommended are ok for them for them until they break piston rings.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 09 Jan 2014 at 11:59 am.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 11:54 am
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

I find a huge difference in many cars between pure gasoline and the current mix with ethanol. Ethanol gas just makes most cars, even new cars, weaker and makes them get worse gas mileage. There is a night and day difference in our 2012 Chrysler 300 S.

As far as the high octane stuff goes, most modern cars seem to run fine on 89 octane pure gas. I really haven't noticed any improvements using premium.

The last vehicle I owned that needed high-octane fuel was a 1981 Nissan 280ZX. The higher the octane fuel, the better it seemed to run. And it pinged with 89 octane. But nothing I've had newer than 1996 has needed this.

PS: I can easily imagine a turbo engine needing higher octane fuel since compression will likely be increased under certain conditions. Higher octane fuel is less likely to pre-detanate under higher compression.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 12:20 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
I find a huge difference in many cars between pure gasoline and the current mix with ethanol. Ethanol gas just makes most cars, even new cars, weaker and makes them get worse gas mileage. There is a night and day difference in our 2012 Chrysler 300 S.

As far as the high octane stuff goes, most modern cars seem to run fine on 89 octane pure gas. I really haven't noticed any improvements using premium.

The last vehicle I owned that needed high-octane fuel was a 1981 Nissan 280ZX. The higher the octane fuel, the better it seemed to run. And it pinged with 89 octane. But nothing I've had newer than 1996 has needed this.

PS: I can easily imagine a turbo engine needing higher octane fuel since compression will likely be increased under certain conditions. Higher octane fuel is less likely to pre-detanate under higher compression.
Bad year for cars in general. The Z stock ran lean, timing values sucked and the injectors to small running duty cycles close to 85% or more.
My 83 street/SCCA Road Track 280ZX to name a few things had a Mallory distributor ,offenhauser intake with a highly modified Holly 4bbl, hooker header and 2.50 exhaust. But even in stock configuration it "pinged" like a dog in heat even with California 91 octane fuel.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 01:19 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
Bad year for cars in general. The Z stock ran lean, timing values sucked and the injectors to small running duty cycles close to 85% or more.
My 83 street/SCCA Road Track 280ZX to name a few things had a Mallory distributor ,offenhauser intake with a highly modified Holly 4bbl, hooker header and 2.50 exhaust. But even in stock configuration it "pinged" like a dog in heat even with California 91 octane fuel.
Believe it or not, I found an aftermarket fuel rail, regulator and injectors at a salvage yard and installed them. There was a noticeable improvement but not huge. And I did nothing else. However, I did out run a Triumph TR6 across the Arkansas River bridge on I430. But I think that was more a function of top end speed with the five speed transmission. I don't know how fast I was going due to the crazy stock 80 mph speedometer. It was shorty after that I installed an older speedometer that went up to 140 or 160, I don't remember which. And that was the last time I ever even tried to race.

You know? I've been cruising salvage yards for a long long time. It must be a pathological think with me.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 02:42 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

If your PT isn't a GT, you are wasting money putting anything other than regular fuel in it.
Higher octane fuel is harder to ignite - that's why it resists detonation - but unless your engine needs that due to compression ratio or ignition timing, you gain NOTHING by using premium fuel.
I have never heard of a lawn mower engine needing premium - compression ratios around 7 or 8 to 1 aren't unusual in a lawnmower - hardly cause for premium.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 02:56 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverdon View Post
If your PT isn't a GT, you are wasting money putting anything other than regular fuel in it.
Higher octane fuel is harder to ignite - that's why it resists detonation - but unless your engine needs that due to compression ratio or ignition timing, you gain NOTHING by using premium fuel.
I have never heard of a lawn mower engine needing premium - compression ratios around 7 or 8 to 1 aren't unusual in a lawnmower - hardly cause for premium.
Higher octane fuel is slower burning not harder to ignite.

Many lawn mower shops will shim the head using 2 or more head gaskets to lower the compression on the engine for use of lower octane fuels.

I was very clear about the knowledge you need to acquire about your engine before you guess about what fuel to use other then what is recommended. High mileage engines will tend to have a greater compression ration then when they were new because of carbon build up which will lead to pre-ignition especially with using lower octane fuels until the carbon is manually cleaned off pistons and combustion chambers or removed chemically.
(which does not always work).
When I owned my engine machine shop I had one account that the owner was determined like a member here about using low octane fuel with his fleet of trucks. I tried one time to explain to him what I am posting in this thread. I said one time. After that I was rebuilding at least an engine for him every other month. Many with broken rings or crack pistons from detonating long periods of time with low octane fuel and a loaded vehicle. He also said it was a waste of money to use higher octane fuel. I guess he was right also as some here?
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Last edited by NitroPT; 09 Jan 2014 at 03:01 pm.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 03:50 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

"Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies: This being the amount of applied energy required to initiate combustion. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energy requirements, it is less likely that a given compression will cause uncontrolled ignition, otherwise known as autoignition or detonation."

http://www.cartalk.com/content/premium-vs-regular-1#1


Maybe Nitro owns Exxon stock....
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nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
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'05 Limited Turbo Lite, (Silver, of course)4-wheel ABS, Sunroof, Spoiler. Mods: E&G Classic grill, K&N FIPK, BTG duals, rear lowered 1.5", LED washer lights, $20 catch can, Aoogah horn, Weatherflectors, Sunroof Deflector, Fuzzy Dice, rear logo flames, rear pinstripe graphic, Gen3 Taillights, rear sway bar, hood struts, Strut bar.
Traded in '02 Silver Touring Edition w/87,000 miles

Last edited by quicksilverdon; 09 Jan 2014 at 03:54 pm.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 03:59 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Quote:
Originally Posted by kctobyjoe View Post
Since MOST of the guys here are NOT adolescescents and REMEBER what Premium Gas from AMACO *really was* I need to get some serious opinions on what octane to use on my 2006 stock Crusier

Since I got it I have placed >1000 miles and filled up consistently with 92 or 93 octane...still in itself a JOKE

Today's 87 octane wouldn't even run a 1970's lawn mower yet a high tech L4 or higher.

FWIW I own a TORO lawn mower and THEY suggest to run premium and that is what I do...for a LAWN MOWER!!!

I do not want ANY pinging; ANY detonation...that is not good at ALL. SO...what is the consensus? 89 octane here is 'midgrade' 92 or 93 is usually premium; 87 garbage gas is regular

Other than using additives which is not part of the is thread...what's the deal?

kctobyjoe
What does your owner's manual say to use in your car? If it says 87 and you are paying more to fill up with a higher premium you're wasting your money. My second Cruiser was a highly modified, 450 HP big turbo set up, boosting 25psi daily and even more boost if I was hot to trot for a race and, yes, I ran 93 on which it purred. I just have to wonder when someone says that they "need" the same octane for their 150 HP engine or any octane higher than 87.

In general, the octane rating of fuel only has to do with squeezing more top end power from an engine by raising compression and advancing spark. It has nothing to do with better mileage or how a car "feels" or "runs". There is an easy to understand reason that a lawnmower manufacturer would require high octane fuel. It has nothing to do AT ALL with the quality of the fuel. It does have everything to do with the quality of the lawnmower engine however. A lawnmower engine is a super crude, carbureted, no electronic engine control, piece of iron, boat anchor so "put high octane in it just to be safe because we don't have a clue what this engine we sold you really needs".

You turbo owner's, what does the manual say about your fuel? Does it say "recommended" or does it say "required"? (If you lost your manual, there's a sticker on the inside of the door flap to fill your tank.) Do you see a warning not to use 87 or 89? When I got my first GT Cruiser turbo, I had a high mileage job which meant 7 tanks of gas per 5 day work week. Guess what grade of fuel I ran? Yep, 87. It never hiccupped or broke any rings because it had a sophisticated engine control, knock detector system in there. It adjusts for summer blend, winter blend, gasoline, gasohol, mountain mix, sea level so it's not that big of a stretch to include fuel grade into what it can do.
(Yes, I know absolutely that it didn't knock. )



For your homework:
Read the second to the last sentence here..... How to lower the pain at the pump - CNN.com
Read general comments here..... True? CNN says lower octane on high octane-recommended doesn't hurt mileage. [Archive] - AnandTech Forums
And...... P0326 Knock Sensor 1 Circuit Range/Performance (Bank 1 or Single Sensor) High Voltage

Last edited by 2step; 09 Jan 2014 at 04:02 pm.
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Old 09 Jan 2014, 04:58 pm
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Default Re: OCTANE for stock 2006 2.4l

Quote:
Originally Posted by quicksilverdon View Post
"Higher octane ratings correlate to higher activation energies: This being the amount of applied energy required to initiate combustion. Since higher octane fuels have higher activation energy requirements, it is less likely that a given compression will cause uncontrolled ignition, otherwise known as autoignition or detonation."

Premium vs. Regular | Car Talk


Maybe Nitro owns Exxon stock....
The information you are reading on fuel ignition is for all values not necessarily the normal conditions of a combustion chamber. So your example inreality has little value or application normally.

You are not reading are you ...I keep say to look what the manufactures recommends to use for fuel now didn't I! .
I explained that if some decided to do it there way they had better know what could happen if they do not monitor things. Now didn't I Don!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2step View Post
an do.
(Yes, I know absolutely that it didn't knock. )



For your homework:
Read the second to the last sentence here.....
Most informationals like this have a political agenda somewhere?

While I know you think you say your engine never knocked...and you can go right along and think that

Many really good ECU/EFI calibrator reading data logs will tell you they can see it in the values and also a good calibrator can even see when there is a difference in normal fuel used by their customers then normally use based such things as the knock values.

All of this is seriously such a long going debate on anything that uses pump fuel on any forum from RC cars to boats. Lots of opinions....and nothing every gets settled.

The most basic and simple thing to do is use what the original manufactures recommends or requires to use for fuel!
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