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Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts?

 
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Old 28 Mar 2015, 08:41 pm
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Default Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts?

Hello, Now, I hope I don't get yelled at for asking a question on timing belt replacement 'given there is like 5 threads about it in the howto', but I for the life of me, cant seem to find a good detailed tutorial, on how to remove the cam sprockets and lock the camshafts while retaining the engines timing.

I know when working on some european cars you can lock the cams with a cam lock tool that holds them in place when the sprockets are removed so they dont turn.

Why do I need to remove them? Because I want to change the water pump and the back timing belt cover is in the way...

Also, there seems to be a oil leak on that same side of the engine, and it could be possible that it's the crank seal. If this is the case, how again, would I be able to remove the crank toothed pulley while retaining timing?

I've seen people use a gauge to figure out TDC and everything.... but I feel like there has to be a way to just lock the cams, and lock the crankshaft, and avoid the mess of re timing the entire engine. I could be wrong, but I would expect a better way?
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Old 29 Mar 2015, 08:09 am
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

Use a rubber door stop to wedge between the cam sprockets. Then just loosen the bolts in the center of sprockets.

Here's a photo where someone used a bolt and nut. But this may damage the sprocket teeth. A rubber door stop in this position will be safer:



There are tools to lock the camshafts in place but these are only necessary when using variable timing sprockets. Here's a photo of the locking tool in place with a variable timing setup. The tool is the flat bar with two dowels on it that fit into the holes on the camshafts to hold them at TDS:




The OEM cam sprockets and crank sprocket have timing marks that can easily be lined up. There is no need for an alignment tool when using the OEM sprockets.




Go to this link to read more on this:

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Old 29 Mar 2015, 09:45 am
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
Use a rubber door stop to wedge between the cam sprockets. Then just loosen the bolts in the center of sprockets.

Here's a photo where someone used a bolt and nut. But this may damage the sprocket teeth. A rubber door stop in this position will be safer:



There are tools to lock the camshafts in place but these are only necessary when using variable timing sprockets. Here's a photo of the locking tool in place with a variable timing setup. The tool is the flat bar with two dowels on it that fit into the holes on the camshafts to hold them at TDS:




The OEM cam sprockets and crank sprocket have timing marks that can easily be lined up. There is no need for an alignment tool when using the OEM sprockets.




Go to this link to read more on this:

Busted_PT project 1
I understand what you're saying.... But if you remove the cam sprockets, without locking the camshafts.... If the camshafts move after the sprockets are removed, the timing marks on the sprockets would be usesless. Am I wrong?
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Old 29 Mar 2015, 10:45 am
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

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Originally Posted by Flash619 View Post
I understand what you're saying.... But if you remove the cam sprockets, without locking the camshafts.... If the camshafts move after the sprockets are removed, the timing marks on the sprockets would be usesless. Am I wrong?
True as you put it. but timing is useless until you put the sprockets back on anyway. You can't get this wrong when the time comes if you pay attention to the marks. If the crank sprocket is pointing correctly on the trailing edge of the arrowed tooth you are correct. If not move it until it is. Same with the cams. A rubber wedge door stop can be used to foul the cam sprockets for tightening the cam bolts and putting the belt on. I did mine with out any thing. Important thing is to take very clear picks of the timing top and bottom for reference in case you have other issues later to rule out timing. Don't rely on memory.
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Old 29 Mar 2015, 11:00 am
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

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Originally Posted by Flash619 View Post
I understand what you're saying.... But if you remove the cam sprockets, without locking the camshafts.... If the camshafts move after the sprockets are removed, the timing marks on the sprockets would be usesless. Am I wrong?
Why do you think if you use the flat bar with two dowels on it that fit into the holes on the camshafts to hold them at TDS that the camshafts would move unless you feel the two dowels are not a slip fit keeping the camshafts from moving at all?
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Old 29 Mar 2015, 11:15 am
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

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Originally Posted by Flash619 View Post
I understand what you're saying.... But if you remove the cam sprockets, without locking the camshafts.... If the camshafts move after the sprockets are removed, the timing marks on the sprockets would be usesless. Am I wrong?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
Why do you think if you use the flat bar with two dowels on it that fit into the holes on the camshafts to hold them at TDS that the camshafts would move unless you feel the two dowels are not a slip fit keeping the camshafts from moving at all?
Steve I believe he is talking about without that bar. But To be clear the cams have a dowel that line up in the sprocket. and the crank sprocket has a key that line these up with the sprockets. No need to use the dial gauge if using stock sprockets.Cam lock might make it easier to put the belt on for some.
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Old 30 Mar 2015, 10:02 pm
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

the dcr tool is like 100$.. a bit steep but I am gonna get one eventually...
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Old 30 Mar 2015, 10:07 pm
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Default Re: Changing a Timing Belt, how to 'properly' remove cam sprockets and lock camshafts

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the dcr tool is like 100$.. a bit steep but I am gonna get one eventually...
Just make one. Nothing special about it. I'm just too impatient to bother once I'm there. I just do the job and close it up.
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