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Timing marks never line up?

 
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Old 10 Apr 2015, 10:17 pm
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Default Timing marks never line up?

Alright so I tore everything apart because I felt insecure (again) turns out the timing marks were off by a notch. I realigned them, putting the exhaust a half notch below the intake as proper. But every time I rotate the crankshaft twice, the exhaust ends up at least one complete notch off from the intake cam. If I intentionally set it notch off, it's still off by around a half notch and the notches are no longer centered.

Am I missing something here? This is easily my fifth try.... And yes before I'm told to look at tutorials, trust me, I've read them all. The notches are always off after the second rotation.

This job wouldn't be so bad if the crankshaft would actually stop turning every time I apply sight pressure to get it over the tensioner......though I've done my best to stop it... Though most of the time it still moves off it's timing mark.

Any ideas why my marks are off?

I really wish there was a way to hold the belt tight around the crankshaft, or at least lock it into place.
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Last edited by Flash619; 10 Apr 2015 at 10:44 pm.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 01:46 am
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

After I turned my monitor upside down to look at your picture it appears the cam timing marks are not aligned on center.
Looks like you don't have the cam timing marks aligned before installing the belt.
When I did my belt to get the timing correct, I had to put the belt on the crank,
then the rear cam and then the front cam which tends to advance 1 tooth because of spring pressure on the lobes.
I had to roll it backward a tooth to align it with the timing mark on the rear cam to slip the belt on.
Its not easy trying to do it without correct tools and sometimes a third hand.
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Last edited by JoeX; 11 Apr 2015 at 01:50 am.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 07:32 am
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

These should have been posted on the original thread.

But you don't have either end exactly right, for this picture. You need to roll the crank a tad bit until the arrow is pointing to the trailing edge of the square tooth, the arrow on the pulley is pointing at. Note the pic of mine. If you do that I believe you will have at least the front cam in line with the center line of the cam bolts. So turn the crank as I have suggested and take a pic for us to verify this. Then I will have suggestions for you to help keep track as you redo the belt. Many have had troubles with this and over come them. Even pros have gotten this wrong. So don't worry about it. It can be done. But any thing less will not work. Engine will not run right.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 08:21 am
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
These should have been posted on the original thread.

But you don't have either end exactly right, for this picture. You need to roll the crank a tad bit until the arrow is pointing to the trailing edge of the square tooth, the arrow on the pulley is pointing at. Note the pic of mine. If you do that I believe you will have at least the front cam in line with the center line of the cam bolts. So turn the crank as I have suggested and take a pic for us to verify this. Then I will have suggestions for you to help keep track as you redo the belt. Many have had troubles with this and over come them. Even pros have gotten this wrong. So don't worry about it. It can be done. But any thing less will not work. Engine will not run right.
Oh, I thought it made sense to start a new thread for a new problem for seo.

Anyways, on your thread... You have the spots on the crankshaft perfectly aligned. The block arrow is aligned to the front edge on the square.... Not the trailing edge? O.o
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 09:19 am
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash619 View Post
Oh, I thought it made sense to start a new thread for a new problem for seo.

Anyways, on your thread... You have the spots on the crankshaft perfectly aligned. The block arrow is aligned to the front edge on the square.... Not the trailing edge? O.o
For starters all this should have been on thread about the timing belt change. So everyone can see the who picture of whats is going on. You also posted that the marks were perfect in one of those earlier threads. You seem to want to argue over anything I post for you, having already decided what answers you what to hear. I have given you the most correct info here on this job. For engine rotation it's the trailing edge. At any rate the arrows are misaligned on yours as well as the cams. So If you want to fix this fine. If you want to argue then hey mine is correct and done. Your's on the other hand Is, well lets say a work in progress. If you will do as we ask you will get this right. But I'm not going to continue to be questioned at every turn. If you do not want my help just say so, and I will leave you to it. It's just that easy. Hope you sort this out either way.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 09:39 am
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
For starters all this should have been on thread about the timing belt change. So everyone can see the who picture of whats is going on. You also posted that the marks were perfect in one of those earlier threads. You seem to want to argue over anything I post for you, having already decided what answers you what to hear. I have given you the most correct info here on this job. For engine rotation it's the trailing edge. At any rate the arrows are misaligned on yours as well as the cams. So If you want to fix this fine. If you want to argue then hey mine is correct and done. Your's on the other hand Is, well lets say a work in progress. If you will do as we ask you will get this right. But I'm not going to continue to be questioned at every turn. If you do not want my help just say so, and I will leave you to it. It's just that easy. Hope you sort this out either way.
Seriously? How do you feel I am arguing? I'm simply confused and am asking questions because to me, the trailing edge would be the left most edge of the tooth on the crankshaft. (not saying your way is wrong)

I'm unsure as to what thread you are talking about, I dont see a stickied timing belt thread.

I have no predefined answers I 'want' to hear. I just want to get this right, and feel like I've been struggling with it for far too long. Yes I said the marks were 'perfect' and obviously I was wrong. (good thing I double checked)

But I'm not here pointing fingers right now, I'm here trying to figure out what step I'm missing or where I've gone wrong.

I've read so many tutorials on how to do these timing marks, yet everyone seems to say something a bit different from the other one, whether its using clips, being a half notch below the intake, being even a half tooth below the intake, to using a wrench to pull up slack certain ways, etc... etc... but nothing I have found seems to work thus far. Probably because I miss interpret instructions, or loose myself in all the different methods.

If my crankshaft mark is perfect, and I set the exaust a half tooth below, then the exaust will end up at least a complete belt tooth too high above the intake.

If I set it a tooth below the intake, it ends up a half notch below the intake.

I've included pictures of what I've ended up with just this last time, as you can see I started with the exhaust a complete tooth lower than the intake (to try to compensate for the end result) which resulted in it being a half tooth too low.

Is the crankshaft mark lined up? I think it is but I'm not entirely sure.




It looks like both cams are slightly pointing too far downward.... I'm not really sure what would keep causing this. The exhaust is clearly too low as well.



I wish I could just find a basic, step by step on this. (Sigh) I'm sorry if I come off short or anything but please believe me, its not you. You've been the most helpful person through this process and I didn't try to argue, I'm sorry you took it that way. I wasnt aware of any timing belt thread that was global.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 01:20 pm
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
For starters all this should have been on thread about the timing belt change. So everyone can see the who picture of whats is going on. You also posted that the marks were perfect in one of those earlier threads. You seem to want to argue over anything I post for you, having already decided what answers you what to hear. I have given you the most correct info here on this job. For engine rotation it's the trailing edge. At any rate the arrows are misaligned on yours as well as the cams. So If you want to fix this fine. If you want to argue then hey mine is correct and done. Your's on the other hand Is, well lets say a work in progress. If you will do as we ask you will get this right. But I'm not going to continue to be questioned at every turn. If you do not want my help just say so, and I will leave you to it. It's just that easy. Hope you sort this out either way.
How do these timing marks look?







Better? Do I have the TDC Right?
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 01:25 pm
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

The left edge is the trailing edge. You pic shows that your a half a tooth off. you need to get this right on that edge to see were the first cam is and so on. Forget the half tooth thing for now. Just confuses people. Let the marks and the belt determen that. Roll the crank till that arrow is at that edge. Not in the middle as you show it. With a straight edge see if your intake is close to that line. If yes your good there. By this time your exhast will more than likely be off a tooth. Tell me what you have.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 01:31 pm
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
The left edge is the trailing edge. You pic shows that your a half a tooth off. you need to get this right on that edge to see were the first cam is and so on. Forget the half tooth thing for now. Just confuses people. Let the marks and the belt determen that. Roll the crank till that arrow is at that edge. Not in the middle as you show it. With a straight edge see if your intake is close to that line. If yes your good there. By this time your exhast will more than likely be off a tooth. Tell me what you have.
Did you see my latest set of pictures? It looks like its the left edge. Or were you referring to the first set where the timing was wrong?

Also if you ever need any extra pics just ask.

Last edited by Flash619; 11 Apr 2015 at 01:34 pm.
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Old 11 Apr 2015, 01:43 pm
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Default Re: Timing marks never line up?

I must have been replying when you posted those up. Bottom a tad hard to judge from tha angle but I believe your there. Top look good on the ceter line and each other. You can start the engine with it lose like that to see if smooth. I would say it should be. That's looking pretty good to me.
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