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Died after heavy rain.

 
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 09:40 am
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Default Died after heavy rain.

For my very first post here, I thought I’d share a recent experience with my 2006 PT Cruiser last week...

I was driving in a very heavy rain and all of the sudden, the car just died. I coasted to the side of the road, tried a few things, but ended up having the car towed home. The engine cranked fine and strong, just wouldn’t fire.
After checking all the fuses, timing belt, put in some dry gas (I had just filled the tank right before this happened…so I wanted to rule out bad fuel), etc., I eventually checked to see if I was getting fuel and I wasn’t. I cut the 9” access hole above the tank after dropping it a little as shown on youtube. I checked for voltage at the green/white wire of the pump harness because I read somewhere that is the wire to check…this is wrong. The power wire for the actual pump is the blue/red wire. Anyway, both wires showed voltage with a meter when using the car body as a ground…so I immediately assumed the fuel pump was bad. I purchased just the fuel pump for $112.00 and replaced it…put everything back together and still nothing. For the heck of it, I put 12 volts to the old pump that I took out and to my surprise, it ran! Dang!
So now I’m checking continuity from all 4 connection tabs on the top of the white pump assembly (where the 4-wire wiring harness plugs in) to the push on connectors that plug right onto the pump…just to make sure there wasn’t a broken wire in the assembly, but all were good.
The four plug wires on the harness go like this…
Large blue/red…pump positive
Small green/white…float positive
Small black…float ground
Large black…pump ground (both blacks are actually joined in the assembly anyway)
So the two outer, large wires are for the pump…the inner wires are for the float.
I ran 12 volts to the where the blue/red wire attaches to the assembly…and connected a ground to where the large black wire attaches AND THE PUMP RAN! So now things are really weird. I have voltage coming from the wiring harness, all the wires are good in the pump assembly, the pump runs when I put voltage right where the harness plugs in, but the pump won’t run when the harness is connected??
Now, instead of using the car body as a ground, I decided to check for voltage with my meter by putting the positive lead on the blue/red wire on the harness and the negative lead on the large black wire (the two wires that should power the pump) and got NOTHING. Turns out the pump was getting power, but no ground. For the heck of it, with the pump assembly connected to the wiring harness (just like it would be if the pump was in the tank) I decided to make a jumper wire from the negative lead on the pump to the body of the car and the pump ran.
So for now, I tapped into the large black wire of the harness about 2 inches away from the connector, soldered a jumper wire to it, put a ring terminal on the other end of the jumper wire, and attached it to the body with a sheet metal screw. The car runs great and everything works! The only downside is that the check engine light is on. I’m going to keep running it and see how it goes. Not sure if it’s a bad ground somewhere or a faulty TIPM or what.

So my fuel pump never was bad...it just lost its ground somehow. Any ideas of where it could have lost the ground? Keep in mind that this would be a ground that only seemed to effect the fuel pump...as the motor still cranked.

If you made it this far...Thanks!
Russ
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 10:33 am
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

On the 2006 PT Cruisers that are manufactured in 2006 and up the fuel pump is controlled by the TIPM. I would suggest doing a battery load test to make sure the voltage is not dropping. The TIPM is sensitive to voltage drops.

On 2006 PT Cruisers and up they are not equipped with a fuel pump relay. The fuel pump control is done through the TIPM. The TIPM receives an input signal from the PCM. Once the TIPM receives the signal, it will allow the fuel pump module to turn on.

The camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor signals are sent to the PCM. If the PCM does not receive the signal within approximately 1 second of engine cranking, it deactivates the fuel pump control and ASD relay. When the control and relay is deactivated, power is shut off from the fuel injectors, ignition coils, oxygen sensor heating elements and fuel pump.

Another member here had repaired the TIPM for the same problem. Found the TIPM had a bad capacitor and a few bad solder spots, also a little bit of water.

Another member had hot wired the fuel pump positive feed line going to the fuel pump to make sure the fuel pump was okay before working on the TIPM.

I would suggest you make sure you have spark on all the cylinders before looking at the TIPM. Check the PCM plug that has the wire controlling the fuel relay signal to the TIPM for moisture and connections. Check out any other possible causes.

The TIPM on the 2006 PT Cruiser is popular for going partially bad triggering no headlights or blinkers not working or fuel pump not working, etc.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 23 Aug 2016 at 11:18 am.
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 11:38 am
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Steve...

I HAD power to the harness right where it attaches to the fuel pump...I did NOT have a ground. How could it be the whole TIPM deal...or any of the sensors you mentioned if I still had power going to the pump?

Simply put...the thick black wire of the harness right on the pump assembly is what supplies the ground to the pump. Mine was not supplying a ground, so I had power, but not current flow.

The main reason for my post was that I already had read all of the discussions about the TIPM...and my situation didn't fit any of them.

Last edited by MatadorMkV; 23 Aug 2016 at 11:43 am.
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 11:59 am
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Check the 2 relays marked.

2006 Engine Compartment.jpg
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatadorMkV View Post
Steve...

I HAD power to the harness right where it attaches to the fuel pump...I did NOT have a ground. How could it be the whole TIPM deal...or any of the sensors you mentioned if I still had power going to the pump?

Simply put...the thick black wire of the harness right on the pump assembly is what supplies the ground to the pump. Mine was not supplying a ground, so I had power, but not current flow.

The main reason for my post was that I already had read all of the discussions about the TIPM...and my situation didn't fit any of them.
On page 8W-30-10 you will see the ground wires for the fuel pump. Make sure the ground wires are good. This wire diagram is for a PT Cruiser without the TIPM.
http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/n...000/EPL_8W.pdf
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 23 Aug 2016 at 12:56 pm.
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 12:01 pm
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

What is the manufacturing date on the driver's side door?
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 12:21 pm
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
What is the manufacturing date on the driver's side door?
03-06
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 12:39 pm
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatadorMkV View Post
03-06
Does your PT Cruiser have the TIPM?
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 01:10 pm
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
Does your PT Cruiser have the TIPM?
LOL...I just assumed it did since it's a 2006. I can tell you that the fuse box LOOKS like the kind that includes the TIPM although I removed the torx screws around the fuses...I looked for clips around the fuse box that I saw other people unclipping to remove the top fuse portion, but I can't get mine to lift off. Is it possible that I don't have the TIPM?
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Old 23 Aug 2016, 01:35 pm
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Default Re: Died after heavy rain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MatadorMkV View Post
LOL...I just assumed it did since it's a 2006. I can tell you that the fuse box LOOKS like the kind that includes the TIPM although I removed the torx screws around the fuses...I looked for clips around the fuse box that I saw other people unclipping to remove the top fuse portion, but I can't get mine to lift off. Is it possible that I don't have the TIPM?

Post #10 on the link thread below gives you an idea if it is a TIPM.
2006 pt help

2006 was the first year that the TIPM is installed we have to pay attention to whether it still has the power distribution center or the TIPM.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 23 Aug 2016 at 01:39 pm.
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