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Trouble-shooting Idle problems with Air Conditioning

 
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 08:03 am
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Exclamation Trouble-shooting Idle problems with Air Conditioning; resources

Hi, I've seen a real frequency of issues with this problem. Here's some troubleshooting resource information from the alldata catalogue.

Quote:
NUMBER: 24-003-03
GROUP: Heating & A/C
DATE: May 23, 2003
SUBJECT:
A/C System Additives
MODELS:
1990 - 2004 All Chrysler Group Products
DISCUSSION
^ The use of A/C system sealers may result in damage to A/C refrigerant recovery/evacuation/recharging equipment and/or A/C system components.
^ Many federal, state/provincial and local regulations prohibit the recharge of A/C systems with known leaks.
^ Daimler/Chrysler recommends the detection of A/C system leaks through the use of approved leak detectors available through Pentastar Service Equipment (PSE) and fluorescent leak detection dyes available through MOPAR Parts.
^ Vehicles found with NC system sealers should be treated as contaminated and replacement of the entire A/C refrigerant system is recommend.
^ The only refrigerants authorized for use are R12 or R134A as specified per the vehicle application.
NOTE :NO REFRIGERANT BLENDS OR HYDROCARBON-BASED REFRIGERANTS ARE TO BE USED.
^ Use only OEM specified compressor oil as specified per the vehicle application.
NOTE :A/C SYSTEMS FOUND TO BE CONTAMINATED WITH A/C SYSTEM SEALERS, A/C STOP-LEAK PRODUCTS, SEAL CONDITIONERS, COMPRESSOR OIL OR REFRIGERANTS NOT APPROVED BY CHRYSLER VOIDS THE WARRANTY FOR THE A/C SYSTEM.


EQUIPMENT REQUIRED
DISCUSSION:
Vehicles from the factory no longer have leak detection dye in the A/C system.
To determine the source of R-134a leak:
1. Add dye to the system. Using BSL-734 R-134a Dye Injector (or equivalent) add 7.39 ml (0.25 oz.) of BSL-712 leak tracer dye through the A/C system low pressure service port
NOTE: THE DYE INJECTOR HOLDS EXACTLY 7.39 ml (0.25 oz.) OF LEAK TRACER DYE.
2. Clean dye from surfaces. Any spilled dye should be cleaned from surfaces using BG-795 Fluorescent Dye Cleaner (or equivalent).
NOTE: ANY DYE ON THE EXTERIOR OF THE A/C COMPONENTS MAY LATER BE DIAGNOSED AS A LEAK.
3. Operate the system. This will thoroughly mix the dye with the system lubricant. The operating time needed for the dye/lubricant to penetrate the leak(s) will depend on the size of the leak. A very small leak could take hours or days of system operation to appear.
4. Check for leaks. Using a BF-750 12 volt UV Lamp (or equivalent), scan all lines, fittings, and components. The exact location of the leak(s) will be pinpointed by a bright yellow/green glow of dye. When checking for evaporator leak(s) shine the UV light at the evaporator drain hole to check for traces of dye. If traces of dye appear at the drain hole, check the evaporator and connections when the unit is removed from the vehicle. Verify leak location.
5. Install Identification sticker. Place one of the dye ID stickers (included with dye) in a prominent location showing that the vehicle has a fluorescent dye in the NC system that can be used to detect future leaks. The dye will not effect the operation or durability of the NC system.
POLICY:
Information Only

Quote:
A/C PERFORMANCE TEST
The air conditioning system is designed to remove heat and humidity from the air entering the passenger compartment. The evaporator, located in the heater-A/C unit, is cooled to temperatures near the freezing point. As warm damp air passes over the fins in the evaporator, moisture in the air condenses to water, dehumidifying the air. Condensation on the evaporator fins reduces the evaporators ability to absorb heat. During periods of high heat and humidity, an air conditioning system will be less effective. With the instrument control set to RECIRC, only air from the passenger compartment passes through the evaporator. As the passenger compartment air dehumidifies, A/C performance levels rise.

PERFORMANCE TEST PROCEDURE
Review Safety Precautions and Warnings before performing this procedure. Air temperature in test room and on vehicle must be 21C (70F) minimum for this test.

NOTE: When connecting the service equipment coupling to the line fitting, verify that the valve of the coupling is fully closed. This will reduce the amount of effort required to make the connection.

Connect a tachometer and manifold gauge set.
Set control to A/C, RECIRC, and PANEL, temperature lever on full cool and blower on high.
Start engine and hold at 1000 rpm with A/C clutch engaged.
Engine should be warmed up with doors closed and windows open.
Insert a thermometer in the left center A/C panel outlet and operate the engine for five minutes . The A/C clutch may cycle depending on ambient conditions. If the clutch cycles, unplug the low pressure cycling clutch switch wire harness connector from the switch located on the accumulator. Place a jumper wire across the terminals of the low pressure cycling clutch switch wire harness connector.
With the A/C clutch engaged, compare the discharge air temperature to the A/C Performance Temperatures charts.

If the discharge air temperature fails to meet the specifications in the performance temperature charts, refer to SYSTEM CHARGE LEVEL TEST for further diagnosis.

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2003 GT M/T in Onyx Green Pearl on Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 Plus Tires 205/50ZR17. Dark Slate Gray Interior. OEM cargo net, parcel shelf, slush mats and trunk protector, mud flaps, mopar subwoofer. Platinum edition pedals, Neon SX 2.0 steering wheel with black+grey wrapped leather cover. Generic lowering springs, KYB gas shocks, Valeo solid flywheel conversion and clutch kit. Urethane insert engine mounts. Energy suspension full body urethane bushing kit. Chrysler premium front speakers, Jenson 6x9 rears. Boston Audio 4x55W amp. Panasonic head unit with xtenzi bluetooth. 300W AC power inverter. Escort 360max and Escort Shifter ZR4, dual front+rear dash camera. stage 1 blow off valve and syked tune computer . Boost and oil pressure gauges with Turbo-Timer. Needswings 3" exhaust elbow, Electric valve actuated Y-pipe with catalytic converter. To do: coilovers, 2step controller, quaife diff, Air-Fuel Meter

Last edited by _PTGT03; 13 Sep 2016 at 08:07 am.
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 08:05 am
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Exclamation Re: Trouble-shooting Idle problems with Air Conditioning

Quote:
SYSTEM CHARGE LEVEL TEST
The procedure below should be used to check and/or fill the refrigerant charge in the air conditioning system.

WARNING: AVOID BREATHING A/C REFRIGERANT AND LUBRICANT VAPOR OR MIST. EXPOSURE MAY IRRITATE EYES, NOSE AND THROAT. USE ONLY APPROVED SERVICE EQUIPMENT MEETING SAE REQUIREMENTS TO DISCHARGE R-134a SYSTEM. IF ACCIDENTAL SYSTEM DISCHARGE OCCURS, VENTILATE WORK AREA BEFORE RESUMING SERVICE. R-134a SERVICE EQUIPMENT OR VEHICLE A/C SYSTEM SHOULD NOT BE PRESSURE TESTED OR LEAK TESTED WITH COMPRESSED AIR. MIXTURE OF AIR and R-134a CAN BE COMBUSTIBLE AT ELEVATED PRESSURES. THESE MIXTURES ARE POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS AND MAY RESULT IN FIRE OR EXPLOSION CAUSING INJURY OR PROPERTY DAMAGE.

NOTE: Refer to the underhood HVAC specification tag for the proper charge level.

It is recommended to use the gauges or reclaim/recycle equipment.

Use a manifold gauge and check the liquid line pressure.
Attach a clamp-on thermocouple to the liquid line near the filter/drier.
The vehicle must be in the following modes:
Automatic transaxle in park or manual transaxle in neutral.
Engine at idle
A/C controls set to outside air
Panel mode
A/C ON full cool
Blower motor ON high speed
Vehicle windows closed
Operate system for a couple of minutes to allow the system to stabilize.
Quote:
Refer to the underhood HVAC Specification sticker for the latest refrigerant fill levels for the vehicle.

A/C Housing Retaining Fasteners 20 Nm (177 in. lbs.)
Quote:
All vehicles are equipped with a common heater A/C housing assembly. The system combines air conditioning, heating, and ventilating capabilities in a single unit housing mounted under the instrument panel. On heater-only systems, the evaporator coil is omitted from the housing and replaced with an air restrictor plate.

Outside air enters the vehicle through the cowl top opening at the base of the windshield, and passes through a plenum chamber to the heater-A/C system blower housing. Air flow velocity can then be adjusted with the blower motor speed selector switch on the heater-A/C control panel. The air intake openings must be kept free of snow, ice, leaves, and other obstructions for the heater-A/C system to receive a sufficient volume of outside air.

It is also important to keep the air intake openings clear of debris because leaf particles and other debris that are small enough to pass through the cowl plenum screen can accumulate within the heater-A/C housing. The closed, warm, damp and dark environment created within the heater-A/C housing is ideal for the growth of certain molds, mildews and other fungi. Any accumulation of decaying plant matter provides an additional food source for fungal spores, which enter the housing with the fresh air. Excess debris, as well as objectionable odors created by decaying plant matter and growing fungi can be discharged into the passenger compartment during heater-A/C system operation.

The heater and optional air conditioner are blend-air type systems. In a blend-air system, a blend-air door controls the amount of unconditioned air (or cooled air from the evaporator on models with air conditioning) that is allowed to flow through, or around, the heater core. A temperature control knob on the heater-A/C control panel determines the discharge air temperature by moving a cable, which operates the blend-air door. This allows an almost immediate manual control of the output air temperature of the system.
Quote:
AMBIENT TEMPERATURE SENSOR
The ambient air temperature is monitored and displayed by the Compass/Temperature Module. The Compass/Temperature Module receives a hardwire input from the ambient temperature sensor (ATS). The ATS is mounted on the center support brace in front of the A/C condenser, behind the front grille.

The ATS cannot be adjusted or repaired and, if faulty or damaged, it must be replaced.

The ATS is a variable resistor that operates on a 5-volt reference signal circuit hardwired from the Compass/Temperature Module. The resistance in the ATS changes as the outside temperature rises or falls. The Compass/Temperature Module senses the change in reference voltage through the ATS resistor. Based on the resistance of the ATS, the Compass/temperature Module is programmed to correspond to a specific temperature The Compass/Temperature Module then displays the proper ambient temperature.

The ATS can be diagnosed using the Ambient Temperature Sensor Test.
See: Testing and Inspection\Ambient Temperature Sensor Test

AMBIENT TEMPERATURE SENSOR TEST
Turn the ignition OFF.
Disconnect and isolate the battery negative cable.
Disconnect the ATS harness connector.
Measure the resistance of the ATS using the following Min/Max values:
TEMPERATURE SENSOR RESISTANCE
0 C (32 F) 29.33 - 35.99 Kilohms
10 C (50 F) 17.99 - 21.81 Kilohms
20 C (68 F) 11.37 - 13.61 Kilohms
25 C (77 F) 9.12 - 10.86 Kilohms
30 C (86 F) 7.37 - 8.75 Kilohms
40 C (104 F) 4.90 - 5.75 Kilohms
The sensor resistance should read between these min/max values. If the resistance values are not OK, replace the Sensor.
Quote:
AC switch wiring
Quote:
A/C PRESSURE TRANSDUCER

DESCRIPTION

This vehicle is equipped with an a/c pressure transducer. This transducer is screwed onto a fitting on the liquid line between the condenser and the high side refrigerant system service port.

OPERATION

The main function of the a/c pressure transducer is to disengage the compressor clutch when the refrigerant system high pressures are too high. The PCM senses a voltage from the transducer and converts it to a pressure. Based on this pressure, the PCM will disengage the clutch at 460 psi and re-engage the clutch at 290 psi. The a/c heater control also uses the pressure value to operate the auto-recirculation function for improved a/c performance under extreme conditions.

DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - A/C PRESSURE TRANSDUCER

Before performing diagnosis of the a/c pressure transducer switch, verify that the refrigerant system has the correct refrigerant charge.

For circuit descriptions and diagrams, (Refer to Appropriate Wiring Information) See: Diagrams\Electrical.

(1) Turn on engine and have a/c selected.
(2) Using the DRB-III monitor and record the pressure value as it is sent out from the PCM.
(3) Connect the high side manifold gauge set to the fitting on the liquid line high side refrigerant system service port.
(4) Compare the DRB-III pressure value to the manifold gauge set reading. The pressure reading from the DRB-III should be similar to the reading of the manifold gauge set value.
(5) If not, replace the a/c pressure transducer.
Quote:
The Idle Air Control (IAC) motor is mounted on the throttle body. The PCM operates the idle air control motor.

The PCM adjusts engine idle speed through the idle air control motor to compensate for engine load, coolant temperature or barometric pressure changes.

The throttle body has an air bypass passage that provides air for the engine during closed throttle idle. The idle air control motor pintle protrudes into the air bypass passage and regulates air flow through it.

The PCM adjusts engine idle speed by moving the IAC motor pintle in and out of the bypass passage. The adjustments are based on inputs the PCM receives. The inputs are from the throttle position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, coolant temperature sensor, MAP sensor, vehicle speed sensor and various switch operations (brake, park/neutral, air conditioning).

When engine rpm is above idle speed, the IAC is used for the following functions:
Off-idle dashpot
Deceleration air flow control
A/C compressor load control (also opens the passage slightly before the compressor is engaged so that the engine rpm does not dip down when the compressor engages)
Target Idle
Target idle is determined by the following inputs:
Gear position
ECT Sensor
Battery voltage
Ambient/Battery Temperature Sensor
VSS
TPS
MAP Sensor
the target idle speed is about 750rpm with no loads, engine up to temp.
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2003 GT M/T in Onyx Green Pearl on Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3 Plus Tires 205/50ZR17. Dark Slate Gray Interior. OEM cargo net, parcel shelf, slush mats and trunk protector, mud flaps, mopar subwoofer. Platinum edition pedals, Neon SX 2.0 steering wheel with black+grey wrapped leather cover. Generic lowering springs, KYB gas shocks, Valeo solid flywheel conversion and clutch kit. Urethane insert engine mounts. Energy suspension full body urethane bushing kit. Chrysler premium front speakers, Jenson 6x9 rears. Boston Audio 4x55W amp. Panasonic head unit with xtenzi bluetooth. 300W AC power inverter. Escort 360max and Escort Shifter ZR4, dual front+rear dash camera. stage 1 blow off valve and syked tune computer . Boost and oil pressure gauges with Turbo-Timer. Needswings 3" exhaust elbow, Electric valve actuated Y-pipe with catalytic converter. To do: coilovers, 2step controller, quaife diff, Air-Fuel Meter
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Old 13 Sep 2016, 02:58 pm
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Default Re: Trouble-shooting Idle problems with Air Conditioning

The cooling fan has been known to cause a rough idle when losing the AC speed. I don't know what happens on an 03 when it having problems. Tangerinedream something has had experience on these fans.
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