Unusual Findings on my '08 CV with 202K miles

[SanAntonioJoe]

OK, just wanted to give all of you a heads-up on the lessons learned from my '08 with 202K miles, mostly highway miles. It is a one-owner car, and had the original timing belt and water pump, according to the original owner. The only problems I noticed is a slightly rough idle, and not as much power as I thought the car should have. Here's what I found so far:

-Had the timing belt, water pump, tensioner, idler pulley, cam and crank seals replaced. The belt was in VERY good condition, but when you bent it backwards, you could see the rubber was starting to harden and crack. There were no missing teeth. It looked like it had 80-100K miles instead of 200+K. But, it was definitely running on borrowed time, so I have NO regrets getting it replaced.

- Water pump was working fine, but there was some evidence of slight leakage at the bottom of the housing, so either the water pump was slightly warped, the gasket was leaking, or the bolts had started to loosen a little. This would have not been a good way to deal with our 95-100 degree days this summer.

-Seals, tensioner and pulley looked like they had 80-100K miles. Seals were oily, but not cracked or torn.

-Spark plugs had normal wear; they were Champion RE14MCC5 plugs. Wear looked normal. These are copper plugs, so they are not OEM. They are being replaced with iridium plugs.

- Oil leakeage: I thought that at first glance, the valve cover gasket needs to be replaced, due to wet oil on the cover and block just under the throttle body. But, after disassembly, the PCV hose is cracked on both ends, and the passenger side of the valve cover is clean. So, PCV and hose will be replaced, I will clean the dirty block and monitor it for more evidence of leaks. The PCV is sluggish when I rattle it, so I assume it is original.

-Intake manifold gasket was wet outside the area where the top half mates with the bottom half of the intake. So, the gasket will be replaced, assuming it had shrunk, turned rigid or both. If this was leaking in air, along with unfiltered air leaking into the engine around the cracked PCV hose, this could account for the rough idle and lack of power.

-Thermostat: This is the most surprising find so far. I thought the gauge was reading low, but the OBDII scanner showed the engine at 180 degrees when warmed up. Last week, it was 21 degrees outside, and when driving in traffic, the temp gauge would go down to C and the heater produced little heat. Sitting at idle, the gauge went back up, and the heater was warm. I assumed the owner (or a lazy shop mechanic) took the thermostat out due to the well-known overheating issues with these engines. However, there was a thermostat, but it was a 180 thermo, not the 195 that is supposed to be in the car. And, the center pin that goes through the thermostat had become unseated where it is supposed to be, and had caused the valve to stay partially open all the time. This seems to account for the engine dropping the temp while driving in 21 degree weather.

I'll have pics of the replaced parts soon, as well as pics of the car. Hope this info can help some other owner track down any problems they are having with their cars.

Joe

[rckstein]

What about the center motor mount, was it replaced?

Did you have the work done at a dealership? If you don't mind saying, but just for reference for others considering similar work on their PT, how much were the repairs?

You'll have some peace of mind now having some kind of a baseline on where your vert is mechanically, so you should be good PT'ing for a while

[rob302]

Originally Posted by SanAntonioJoe

the center pin that goes through the thermostat had become unseated where it is supposed to be, and had caused the valve to stay partially open all the time.

this happens when people try to be like me but push a little too hard (i push the thermostat down a little with a screwdriver and then fill the car with coolant. eliminated the need for me to bleed it.) first time i tried it, i pushed too hard and ended up how yours was. it's "fun" but doable to get it back into position and working right again without removing it from the car.

useless comment, i know, but hope you found it interesting

[rambojoe]

great report joe! the kind of posts that make the ptcf so cool! guess I'm lucky though, never had any heating issues....
I think the intake man gaskets go bad due to the whole manifold support design... it isn't the greatest rig. but bad mounts definitely make it worse!

[Gkon]

Thanks for the insight. I look forward to my 202k mile posting!

[SanAntonioJoe]

Buttoned up and running fine. I've included a pic of the old thermostat, and the old spark plugs.

I did notice the new thermostat gasket didn't have the notch to fit into the housing, so I felt where the offset on the thermostat had to fit.

One thing that was interesting was the old intake gaskets were orange, and the new ones (Felpro) were blue. The new gaskets seemed to be slightly thicker than the old ones.

While it was taken apart, I also removed and cleaned both sides of the throttle body. Not sure about Chrysler engines, but on Fords, a dirty throttle body almost always is the main cause to a rough idle. All electrical connections were cleaned with CRC Electric Parts Cleaner, which you can get at most Walmart stores.

Once it was running and after a test drive, I watched the temperature on the OBDII scanner. It went up to 190 quickly, then went up to 206. The fans came on and in seconds the temp was back down to 191. By the way, I didn't drain the radiator; just removed the hose and thermostat housing, with a pan underneath to catch the coolant. While the coolant stayed up to the top of the block, I lucked out and didn't have to open the bleed screw.

As for the timing belt work, I had it done at an independent shop here in San Antonio I have used for years. I bought the parts, and the labor to have everything done was $195. I know that is ridiculously low, but this guy has the best prices I've ever found around here. And, his work is top notch. Not too confident in the local Chrysler dealerships, so I prefer independent shops with a good local reputation for work I can't or don't want to do.

If you are thinking about getting this done, here's the parts I replaced. All were purchased at Advance Auto Parts.

TIMING BELT PARTS

CARQUEST by Dayco Timing Belt Water Pump Kit without Seals
Part No WP265K4A $175.99

Felpro Camshaft Front Seal Set
Part No TCS 45961 $5.99

Felpro Crankshaft Front Seal Set
Part No TCS 45962 $10.39

CARQUEST by Dayco Poly Rib Belt
Part No 5040345 $18.99

CARQUEST by Dayco Poly Rib Belt
Part No 5040512 $15.99

CARQUEST Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant (1 Gallon)
Part No 301 $13.99

COOLING SYSTEM AND SPARK PLUGS PARTS LIST

Felpro Intake Manifold Gasket Set
Part No MS 93219 $22.39

Felpro Thermostat Gasket
Part No 35588 $4.99

Gunk Engine Brite Engine Cleaner Foamy
Part No FEB1 $4.49

Stant Superstat Premium Thermostat,
195 Degrees Fahrenheit $11.39

AutoCraft Crankcase Ventilation Hose
Part No AC1132P $3.99

Autolite Iridium XP Spark Plug
Part No XP5263 $6.99 each

By the way, these are list prices on the parts. You can order parts online and pick them up in the closest store. If you order them online, and use one of these two codes, you will get a significant discount:

TRT30 30% discount on orders over $50
TRT41 $40 off orders over $100

I was loosing daylight by the time I was done, so I will get pics of the car taken tomorrow.

Joe

[SanAntonioJoe]

For rkstein: The motor mounts were fine; I was surprised that they were in such good condition.

And yes, you are right; lots of preventive maintenance or catching up on what the previous owner didn't do makes me think the car can be used for anything. In the next few days, I will get to the rest of the fluids and have the transmission checked out by a local shop that doesn't gouge you on repairs.

I think I see a trip to Galveston in my very near future.... Top down, of course...

[rckstein]

Originally Posted by SanAntonioJoe

Buttoned up and running fine. I've included a pic of the old thermostat, and the old spark plugs.

I did notice the new thermostat gasket didn't have the notch to fit into the housing, so I felt where the offset on the thermostat had to fit.

One thing that was interesting was the old intake gaskets were orange, and the new ones (Felpro) were blue. The new gaskets seemed to be slightly thicker than the old ones.

While it was taken apart, I also removed and cleaned both sides of the throttle body. Not sure about Chrysler engines, but on Fords, a dirty throttle body almost always is the main cause to a rough idle. All electrical connections were cleaned with CRC Electric Parts Cleaner, which you can get at most Walmart stores.

Once it was running and after a test drive, I watched the temperature on the OBDII scanner. It went up to 190 quickly, then went up to 206. The fans came on and in seconds the temp was back down to 191. By the way, I didn't drain the radiator; just removed the hose and thermostat housing, with a pan underneath to catch the coolant. While the coolant stayed up to the top of the block, I lucked out and didn't have to open the bleed screw.

As for the timing belt work, I had it done at an independent shop here in San Antonio I have used for years. I bought the parts, and the labor to have everything done was $195. I know that is ridiculously low, but this guy has the best prices I've ever found around here. And, his work is top notch. Not too confident in the local Chrysler dealerships, so I prefer independent shops with a good local reputation for work I can't or don't want to do.

If you are thinking about getting this done, here's the parts I replaced. All were purchased at Advance Auto Parts.

TIMING BELT PARTS

CARQUEST by Dayco Timing Belt Water Pump Kit without Seals
Part No WP265K4A $175.99

Felpro Camshaft Front Seal Set
Part No TCS 45961 $5.99

Felpro Crankshaft Front Seal Set
Part No TCS 45962 $10.39

CARQUEST by Dayco Poly Rib Belt
Part No 5040345 $18.99

CARQUEST by Dayco Poly Rib Belt
Part No 5040512 $15.99

CARQUEST Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant (1 Gallon)
Part No 301 $13.99

COOLING SYSTEM AND SPARK PLUGS PARTS LIST

Felpro Intake Manifold Gasket Set
Part No MS 93219 $22.39

Felpro Thermostat Gasket
Part No 35588 $4.99

Gunk Engine Brite Engine Cleaner Foamy
Part No FEB1 $4.49

Stant Superstat Premium Thermostat,
195 Degrees Fahrenheit $11.39

AutoCraft Crankcase Ventilation Hose
Part No AC1132P $3.99

Autolite Iridium XP Spark Plug
Part No XP5263 $6.99 each

By the way, these are list prices on the parts. You can order parts online and pick them up in the closest store. If you order them online, and use one of these two codes, you will get a significant discount:

TRT30 30% discount on orders over $50
TRT41 $40 off orders over $100

I was loosing daylight by the time I was done, so I will get pics of the car taken tomorrow.

Joe

Sounds like you found a great mechanic, how does he make a living charging those kinds of rates?!

[SanAntonioJoe]

He literally makes it up on volume. His shop is in one of the most run-down parts of San Antonio you can imagine. The neighborhood would make the old Sanford and Son TV show look like the Smithsonian by comparison. But, I have had engine swaps done there, the A/C system on two different vehicles, and then the PT repairs. I've NEVER had to take anything back to him a second time. When I tell him what I need done, he quotes a price and never changes it. He's an older guy and seems to have about 8-12 young guys working for him all the time.

When you look around his shop, it is nearly all major work being done; engine rebuilds or swaps, trannys, head gaskets, etc.

[rsrocket1]

$195??!! that's incredible. I saw a Youtube video of a Chrysler mechanic who said he did the TB's all the time on PTC's and got it down to about 3 hours which is about half of what a normal skilled mechanic could do it in. That would be a bargain at double the price.

Joe, make sure you check the other usual things that wear out like control arm bushings, shocks torque strut bushings etc.

It's good to see that a well maintained PT can go 200k+ miles and maybe a lot more.