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Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 24 Jan 2017, 08:58 pm
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Smile Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

Before Xmas, our Cruiser took man hill road, elevation increase of 7500, strangely, and all of a sudden started doing high revving to get uphill, but handled it well. It went off and on, then on the 6th it did more than limp in mode.

I read up on symptoms, figured it was the transmission solenoid. My stepson offered to help me with tools then made some threats (he's a combat vet, pretty messed up), and when I cam back out, he had put back the battry v-shaped support with an impact hammer, but not tamped down the solenoid screws, and they leaked all over. The next day he came back, screwed around, then read some post off of this forum, claimed the guy who said 110 inc/lbs really meant 100 foot/lbs, and over tightened it until it broke off the right nut holding down the solenoid.

We have never, ever gotten any codes.

I had to have it towed, and then drilled out. Coming back it ran fine, and after we went down hill it did all 4 gears all the way home. Then, it started acting funny. Wouldn't shift, kept at 35-40 revving up to 4000 withotu shifting, and at 30 I had to back off when it hit 3k so it would shift. The more I drove it, the better it behaved. But, it has never upshifted past 40, unless I go down hill first, then it will do it after.

I will have it towed tomorrow, but would like to know what to expect. I am guessing the transmission needs to be "re-learned". It started up in second this morning, after having had the battery off all night on the advice of the mechanic shop owner. It took forever to take off, but after driving it around the sluggishness stopped, and if it high revved, I'd back off, and then it would shift and run like normally. I'm guessing it became stuck in the limp in mode, and goes back to it. I am guessing this is because when a transmission solenoid breaks, and the battery is disconnected for ten days, it goes back to whatever was the last mode it was in, and so I have to have the transmission re-flahsed. I'm guessing it is not the vehicle/variable speed sensor, since no engine codes showed up.

Am I on the right track? Does it just need to have the tranny codes checked, and then be reflashed if nothing else is wrong with it?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 25 Jan 2017, 07:06 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

Have you ever changed the fluid and filter? If not, then I'd recommend that. ATF+4 fluid ONLY. And I prefer the transmission filter kit from O'Reilly Auto Parts over the zone or advance. Personal choice. And maybe you need to look for a vacuum leak. The over revving to 4,000 rpms is REALLY strange. Push comes to shove, take it to a trans shop and have the CVI's checked. It MIGHT be time for a rebuild, but I don't really think so.
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 10:01 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

No year or Model PT Cruiser? It really helps to no this!

You need to take it to a shop that can access most Transmission codes.

The symptom is common with varnish build up on solenoids or the TCM.
Really only a Transmission Service Shop can help at least test and suggest a repair.

There is NO re-learn procedure for a PT Cruiser A604/41TE automatic Transmission. This sometimes applies to changing the PCM if the PCM did not get the latest MOPAR firmware updates when it was rebuilt.

In any case I think you will get out of the shop for under *600 bucks? But that is only a guess on my part based on posted information on this thread.

*more if PCM needs to be replaced.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 25 Jan 2017 at 10:06 am.
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 10:51 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
No year or Model PT Cruiser? It really helps to no this!

You need to take it to a shop that can access most Transmission codes.

The symptom is common with varnish build up on solenoids or the TCM.
Really only a Transmission Service Shop can help at least test and suggest a repair.

There is NO re-learn procedure for a PT Cruiser A604/41TE automatic Transmission. This sometimes applies to changing the PCM if the PCM did not get the latest MOPAR firmware updates when it was rebuilt.

In any case I think you will get out of the shop for under *600 bucks? But that is only a guess on my part based on posted information on this thread.

*more if PCM needs to be replaced.
This is incorrect. There certainly is a quick learn or relearn procedure for a PT Cruiser A604/41TE automatic Transmission that is done when the transmission is serviced over and above a normal trans fluid change as well as when the PCM is replaced. You need to visit a shop or dealer with a higher end scanner that has this capability.

When you service the trans and replace components, the idea is to reset all of the learned circuit pressures etc so that new values can be formed, when driving, that will reflect the new pressures that may be realized with the new, unvarnished/sticky parts/defective parts. In fact, the Chrysler service manual recommends a quick learn to be done when replacing the solenoid pack.
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 11:01 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by myckee View Post
This is incorrect. There certainly is a quick learn or relearn procedure for a PT Cruiser A604/41TE automatic Transmission that is done when the transmission is serviced over and above a normal trans fluid change as well as when the PCM is replaced. You need to visit a shop or dealer with a higher end scanner that has this capability.

When you service the trans and replace components, the idea is to reset all of the learned circuit pressures etc so that new values can be formed, when driving, that will reflect the new pressures that may be realized with the new, unvarnished/sticky parts/defective parts. In fact, the Chrysler service manual recommends a quick learn to be done when replacing the solenoid pack.
This is incorrect if the *latest firmware was installed. The relearn procedure is part of the *programing
Dude whatever LOL You really need to read everything I previously posted again!!! I think I implied that you need the latest firmware regarding the transmission in any case.
Even older units it was only needed if the transmission was rebuilt or the TQ replaced or TCM?PCM with older programing was used.
The only time it may be needed if the torque converter is removed and or replaced.

I am not going to argue with you I know you dont do this work diagnostic work yourself on ATXs a I believe you prefer manual transmission? Or at least never indicated this? One of my good friends owns an over 3 decade old and highly credited Transmission Service shop and we talk about ATX transmission subjects often!

Besides your are assuming things without knowing the year and model PT Cruiser of the OP!

OH and did you not read that the OP has already had the PT Cruiser towed to a shop. So really anything posted for suggestions really are mute anyway. Hopefully he will return to this thread and tell us what the solution was?
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Last edited by NitroPT; 25 Jan 2017 at 11:12 am.
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 11:09 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by NitroPT View Post
This is incorrect if the *latest firmware was installed. The relearn procedure is part of the *programing
Dude whatever LOL
The only time it may be needed if the torque converter is removed and or replaced.

I am not going to argue with you I know you dont do this work yourself Or at least never indicated this? One of my good friends owns an over 3 decade old and highly credited Transmission Service shop and we talk about these things often!
I'm shocked that you don't know that your snapon scanner can do it and is not part of the programming per say. When you do it, it resets all the values to a base level, so that the transmission can learn its new values when driving. You don't want to replace parts and have the pressures all out of whack. lol

You may wish to discuss this again with your transmission shop "friend". I think you may have misinterpreted what he was trying to tell you.

Make sure you call Ed Peters and inform him that he or his buddies screwed up when they put that requirement of a quick learn in the FSM. lol
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 11:23 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by myckee View Post
I'm shocked that you don't know that your snapon scanner can do it and is not part of the programming per say. When you do it, it resets all the values to a base level, so that the transmission can learn its new values when driving. You don't want to replace parts and have the pressures all out of whack.
I have posted that I use my Snap-on and you know very well this. Your response as well mine are not completey detailed, but I understand your need to argue.
Really ROLMAO I am shocked that you have not looked at the TCM programing DATA programing as you seem to continue to post implying you are now well versed in Chrysler old school PCM . Maybe call Keven and see if he be kind enough to give a copy to study if you don't have it or can't access it in the TCM/PCM
When I do ATX work if there are no codes the test drive sets most all adjustments or a code will display or obviously the shifting aspect will need attention which should also be backed by a code. Usually during a hard part changed the latest firmware is uploaded if available as part of the process of repair.


did you not read that the OP has already had the PT Cruiser towed to a shop. So really anything posted for suggestions really are mute anyway. Hopefully he will return to this thread and tell us what the solution was?



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Old 25 Jan 2017, 11:50 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

"QUICK LEARN PROCEDURE
The quick learn procedure requires the use of the scan tool. This program allows the PCM to recalibrate itself. This will provide the best possible transaxle operation.
NOTE: The quick learn procedure should be performed if any of the following procedures are performed:
* Transaxle Assembly Replacement
* Powertrain Control Module Replacement
* Solenoid/Pressure Switch Assembly Replacement
* Clutch Plate and/or Seal Replacement
* Valve Body Replacement or Recondition
To perform the Quick Learn Procedure, the following conditions must be met:
* The brakes must be applied
* The engine speed must be above 500 rpm
* The throttle angle (TPS) must be less than 3 degrees
* The shift lever position must stay until prompted to shift to overdrive
* The shift lever position must stay in overdrive after the Shift to Overdrive prompt until the scan tool indicates the procedure is complete
* The calculated oil temperature must be above 60 and below 200
1. Plug the scan tool into the diagnostic connector. The connector is located under the instrument panel.
2. Go to the Transmission screen.
3. Go to the Miscellaneous screen.
4. Select Quick Learn Procedure. Follow the instructions of the scan tool to perform the Quick Learn Procedure."

Depending on what has been done to the transmission the quick learn procedure may or may not be necessary. This requires a specialized scan tool that the dealer has that can do the procedure.

I recommend to take the PT Cruiser to a transmission shop to get the transmission codes first before doing any procedures. We don't know the root cause of the problem yet and you might be wasting your money that can be saved by taking it to a transmission shop that can give you free advice. Unless we work on these transmissions daily the best person to give this advice is a qualified transmission technician.

By the way this Quick Learn Procedure is for a 2006 PT Cruiser.

As NitroPT posted this procedure might not be necessary if the lastest firmware has been already completed. Some members have posted wasting their money having the firmware updated only to find out the problem was elsewhere in the transmission.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 25 Jan 2017 at 12:07 pm.
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 11:57 am
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

when i used to work in a trans shop we used to just throw new solenoid packs at the 604 left and right.. they can be very sensitive.. id tear the trans out another guy would rebuild it, and then id reinstall it.. we reused the solenoid pack most the time depending on how bad the trans was when it came.. and most of that time it was fine..other times if it wasnt shifting right or w/e right after the rebuild, we would stick a new solenoid pack in it and itd be good to go... there was no relearn of anything.. of course we had the battery disconnected the whole time, and before your test drive you go in with the scan tool and clear any codes it may have had...
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Old 25 Jan 2017, 09:46 pm
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Default Re: Transmission Solenoid, Not Shifting Up

So the solenoid packs can be changed or cleaned with out having to bring it to a dealer?
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