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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02 Aug 2017, 06:38 pm
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Default Engine pinging

I have what sounds to me like engine pinging on acceleration. The car is a 2002 PT. There's no pinging when the engine is idling or at a steady cruising speed or for the first couple minutes after starting the car cold or when reving the motor rpms in neutral. When accelerating, there is a loss of power and there are pinging sounds. No codes have come up. I tried premium gas and it didn't help. Also went through a bottle of injection cleaner and no better. Plugs and wires are 6K miles old. Could the knock sensor be bad with no code and with no engine light? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 06:40 pm
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Default Re: Engine pinging

I forgot to mention the car has 117K miles on the odometer. Thanks
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 07:31 pm
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Default Re: Engine pinging

In most cases pre-ignition is from a carbon build up in the combustion chambers.

Sea Foam fuel cleaning additive might help or you can use water to clean the combustion chambers.
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 08:06 pm
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Default Re: Engine pinging

At 117k have you had the timing belt replaced? If not, it's past time and the timing belt could be stretched enough to make the engine timing off which would cause the pinging.
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Old 02 Aug 2017, 08:44 pm
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Default Re: Engine pinging

The timing belt and water pump was changed about 15K miles ago.
I'll try some sea foam and see if that helps.
Thanks!
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Old 03 Aug 2017, 07:34 am
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Default Re: Engine pinging

If the knock system was working correctly, shouldn't it be doing something to prevent the pinging even with high carbon build up?
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Old 03 Aug 2017, 08:13 am
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Default Re: Engine pinging

If you have already ruled out poor fuel quality and have tried using a brand fuel like Chevron for a tank full or 2.....

I would suggest to get a scan tool and access the timing and knock sensor values .

A knocks signal and operation can only allow only so much timing and fueling changes. It is a mis- conception that they can solve all the issues caused by pre ignition.

The best method for quick carbon removable on the piston domes and combustion chambers of a 1.6 and 2.4 gasoline PT engine is the use of water directly in to the intake charge. Somewhere on this forum I believe I did a step by step how to do it?
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Last edited by NitroPT; 04 Aug 2017 at 09:40 pm. Reason: spelling spelling spelling spelling LOL
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Old 03 Aug 2017, 08:14 am
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Default Re: Engine pinging

Quote:
Originally Posted by harleytoprock View Post
If the knock system was working correctly, shouldn't it be doing something to prevent the pinging even with high carbon build up?
Not an expert, but it retards the timing which would likely be the loss in power you are feeling. They don't generally ping in neutral because there is no load. Load makes a huge difference. For instance, many times a car that seemed perfect would ping going up hill, but be fine on flat ground.
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Old 03 Aug 2017, 08:21 am
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Default Re: Engine pinging

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Originally Posted by Fk5 View Post
**Not an expert, but it retards the timing which would likely be the loss in power you are feeling. They don't generally ping in neutral because there is no load. Load makes a huge difference. For instance, many times a car that seemed perfect would ping going up hill, but be fine on flat ground.
Pinging starts before the human ear can hear it. Yes an engine can ping and many often does in neutral or no load conditions. If the sensor is working properly you would not necessarily feel anything unless the timing and fueling was changed at a level you could compare to a norm or what would be a acceleration or load like going up a hill with a good running engine. It can also be seen in reduced MPG.

Your **examples are more the old days when knock sensors were first used could "kick" the timing almost by 12+ degrees when they were false reading which was a PIA and made the car extremely sluggish from stop and go. The PCM and ECU in cars from about 2000 no longer use only the timing to reduce pre-ignition so the knock sensor is only a small part in pri-ignition reductions.
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Last edited by NitroPT; 03 Aug 2017 at 08:23 am.
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Old 04 Aug 2017, 06:05 am
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Default Re: Engine pinging

I have been fighting this as well. With the pinging do you have that half throttle no difference in power syndrome? I pulled my plugs recently. They were whitish to greyish in color which in my world means lean fuel to air ratio, which I am not sure if it coincides with the reason for the pinging. Although in my motor head days when cars had points and distributors pinging was mostly related to timing or point dwell. Well these do not have distributors. I have posted on here as well on my issues. Some say timing belt, compression, leaking air plenum, etc. Well I ruled out the plenum leak due to the big ole butterfly valve that lets the air in, but I did change the injectors thinking that they probably have a life expectancy. So, what tells this engine when to fire? Is it the crank sensor and cam sensor? How else would it know the position of the piston? That is where the adjustable distributor came into the picture. It was driven off the Camshaft. Ok. Now these buggers use a computer. Signals sent to it tell it when to fire the plugs. Remember the distributor. Back then we had timing lights and little plates above the crankshaft pulleys/harmonic balancers, etc. You could rotate the distributor to tell it when to fire based on manufactures recommended top dead center. You could make it ping. Ok, so what if the cam with the sensor (Intake valves) jumped a tooth, or were a tooth off? the little magnet on the camshaft is fixed, It is not adjustable. That would tell the PCM to fire if the piston was not close enough to TDC, which causes retarded or advanced timing, same as rotating a distributor to vary the firing point such as on a distributor type engine. Or, could a bad sensor cause it? I would recommend taking the inspection plug out on the timing belt cover and rotating the engine from the crank pulley. See if the marks line up. My theory makes sense to me. What I do not understand is that my pinging got less when I changed my oxygen sensors. Hmmm, maybe helped the air to fuel ratio slightly. Think about it? All this is connected through that PCM. All these signals do something. Like Nitro says. Simple stupid first. Check the compression, or like I say the timing marks. Still not sold this isn't related to the lean mixture, however at idle my car sounds a little diesel like which may indicate a timing belt jump.
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