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2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 15 Oct 2017, 11:15 am
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

Repeated the coil pack test while the wife was turning the car over. Still no voltage on any of the leads. Retested the continuity on the ground lead between tests to make sure i was good there.

I pulled the 20a fuse13 and it was good. I cleaned the contacts just in case and saw a small spark when reconnecting (still good). I tested the horn, then swapped those 2 relays. Horn tested ok before and after the swap.

Oddly, if i do the ignition dance the dash says code p1684, but i don't see it on my code reader and i haven't disconnected the battery within the last 50 starts. As a sanity check i tested the voltage on the battery and got 12.1v
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 15 Oct 2017, 12:36 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

The orange wire going to the coil should have voltage going to it with the ignition on and cranking. This voltage comes from the ASD circuit.

The PCM will cut off the ASD circuit if the PCM does not receive signal from the Crankshaft sensor or Camshaft sensor.

I would suggest trying to start it with the camshaft sensor disconnected. It will be hard starting for up to 30 seconds but if it starts then you have a better idea of what might be causing the problem.

I would focus on making sure the Camshaft sensor and Crankshaft sensor are working properly.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 15 Oct 2017 at 12:40 pm.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 08:51 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
The orange wire going to the coil should have voltage going to it with the ignition on and cranking. This voltage comes from the ASD circuit.

The PCM will cut off the ASD circuit if the PCM does not receive signal from the Crankshaft sensor or Camshaft sensor.

I would suggest trying to start it with the camshaft sensor disconnected. It will be hard starting for up to 30 seconds but if it starts then you have a better idea of what might be causing the problem.

I would focus on making sure the Camshaft sensor and Crankshaft sensor are working properly.
I had tried testing the cranked coil both with and without the cam sensor connected. Looks like I should focus on testing the crankshaft sensor and maybe do a continuity check on the orange coil wire to make sure it isn't cut (already confirmed it wasn't a ground).

I'm doubting the failed wire though. It doesn't align very well with the car having started and ran for a few seconds before it died and yielded the crank/nospark symptom.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 10:52 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

I think i may have found the problem.

You mentioned that the Green/Orange wire on the coil should be 12v.. however that's the one that's Ground for me. In looking at the wiring diagram and actually thinking about how the CoilPack works... none of the 3 wires should be Ground. There should only be 1 constant voltage and 2 signal wires (1 for each coil).

I pulled the relay and did continuity to find the pin that goes to the Coil. I then pulled the fusebox up so i could see the color of wire underneath, and sure enough it's Dg/Or.

In looking at the wiring diagrams, this shouldn't be a Ground pin. Can anyone else please do a quick ground check on this pin to confirm my sanity?




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Old 15 Oct 2017, 11:09 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

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Originally Posted by BTarb24 View Post
I think i may have found the problem.

You mentioned that the Green/Orange wire on the coil should be 12v.. however that's the one that's Ground for me. In looking at the wiring diagram and actually thinking about how the CoilPack works... none of the 3 wires should be Ground. There should only be 1 constant voltage and 2 signal wires (1 for each coil).

I pulled the relay and did continuity to find the pin that goes to the Coil. I then pulled the fusebox up so i could see the color of wire underneath, and sure enough it's Dg/Or.

In looking at the wiring diagrams, this shouldn't be a Ground pin. Can anyone else please do a quick ground check on this pin to confirm my sanity?




The dark green/orange wire coming from the ASD (ASD has 12 volts coming from the battery when the ASD is activated) feeds 12 volts to the coil(pin#2). The other two wires from the coil (pin 1 & 3) are being grounded one at a time by the PCM.

By the way this is a great layout of wiring diagrams and pictures.

I agree that we should look into the crankshaft sensor connector, wiring and the sensor itself. Sometimes when the crankshaft sensor goes bad it does not trigger a code. There has been some discussion on using OEM crankshaft sensor versus aftermarket and I will leave that up to you to decide.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 15 Oct 2017 at 11:12 pm.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptcruisersteve View Post
The dark green/orange wire coming from the ASD (ASD has 12 volts coming from the battery when the ASD is activated) feeds 12 volts to the coil(pin#2). The other two wires from the coil (pin 1 & 3) are being grounded one at a time by the PCM.
I agree. Though, if i'm reading the diagram correctly, there should be no situation where pin2 is ever grounded, right? Diagram seems to show it is a dead lead when the relay is off.

Hoping someone can confirm that their relay pin isn't grounded before i go hunting for the location of the assumed short.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 11:20 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTarb24 View Post
I think i may have found the problem.

You mentioned that the Green/Orange wire on the coil should be 12v.. however that's the one that's Ground for me. In looking at the wiring diagram and actually thinking about how the CoilPack works... none of the 3 wires should be Ground. There should only be 1 constant voltage and 2 signal wires (1 for each coil).

I pulled the relay and did continuity to find the pin that goes to the Coil. I then pulled the fusebox up so i could see the color of wire underneath, and sure enough it's Dg/Or.

In looking at the wiring diagrams, this shouldn't be a Ground pin. Can anyone else please do a quick ground check on this pin to confirm my sanity?




The wiring diagram that you have posted is for the 1.6L.
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Old 15 Oct 2017, 11:57 pm
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

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Originally Posted by rckstein View Post
The wiring diagram that you have posted is for the 1.6L.
Sigh.. you're right. I didn't even know they even had two different displacement variants.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 12:21 am
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

Thankfully it looks like the 1.6 and the 2.4 are the same in regards to the coil wiring, so the "should it be a ground" dilemma still applies.

Here are the 2.4L diagrams:






And just be cause it was referenced in line, here is 8W-10-19. As Steve mentioned, it just illustrates that the ASD output has multiple destinations, but no logical conditions are between it and the coil.
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Old 16 Oct 2017, 12:37 am
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Default Re: 2001 Cranks but wont start P1193

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Originally Posted by BTarb24 View Post
Sigh.. you're right. I didn't even know they even had two different displacement variants.
The 2.4 diagram shows the same thing on 8W-30-15. All I see is an open ASD circuit on E3. No short to ground.
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