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Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jan 2018, 05:34 pm
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Lindenhurst, NY
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Default Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit - RESOLVED! (see last post)

2004 PT Cruiser Turbo Lite, 98667 Miles.

Problem Summary:
Red Security LED on dashboard stays on steadily, no crank, no start.

Have both original keys and fobs, remote entry (lock/panic), all other lights and accessories work fine.

New battery, all fuses checked.

No error codes using UltraGauge (engine or pending), key dance shows code 0513.

Problem History:
Back door left ajar overnight, weakening battery. Needed jumps with increased frequency, after about a week battery would die overnight. Last few jump attempts car would run for a few seconds then die. Final jump attempt had no crank, red security LED came on and stayed on.

Took a few days to replace battery (bad snowstorm here on Long Island, NY), installing new battery didn't reset immobilizer. Tried leaving key in ignition set to On for an hour with battery on charger, no change.

Had locksmith come, said he reprogrammed both keys but red LED and immobilizer still on, tried his own key, same thing. Erased and reprogrammed all, same outcome. Thought PCM might be bad.

Anything else I can check/try before having car towed to dealer?

Thanks.
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2004 Chrysler PT Cruiser Limited Edition Platinum Series 2.4L 4cyl Turbo

Last edited by inertian; 19 Jan 2018 at 12:49 pm. Reason: Update to share problem resolution & say thanks
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Old 08 Jan 2018, 06:38 pm
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 7,309
Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

P0513 - Invalid SKIM Key Detected

Trouble Code Conditions:Key on, and the PCM detected an invalid Sentry Key Immobilizer key had been inserted into the ignition key assembly.

Possible Causes:

1. Incorrect VIN in the PCM
2. No communication between the PCM and the SKIM
3. SKIM trouble codes present (check for any SKIM codes)
4. Valid SKIM key not present
5. VIN not programmed into the PCM
6. PCM has failed



Also pull the camshaft sensor connector, try starting it and see if the code for the camshaft sensor comes up.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 09 Jan 2018 at 02:42 am.
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Old 08 Jan 2018, 07:11 pm
_PTGT03's Avatar
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

Security system has nothing to do with interlocking of the cranking system. It only sends a signal to the autoshutdown relay when there is an alarm fault shortly after engine ignition.

Backprobe PCM connector C8, number 38 - starter relay control to ground. this is the by-pass procedure to determine if the PCM has failed. when you turn the ignition switch, the engine should crank. else, it could be a problem in the starting circuit, a clutch or neutral interlock switch. take a look at the circuit diagram for the cranking system, and the pcm connector pinouts.
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Old 08 Jan 2018, 08:26 pm
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Location: Lindenhurst, NY
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

Appreciate the quick and detailed responses.

While researching this issue, seen multiple references to Fuse #33.

Where is it located, and what value?

Thanks.
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Old 08 Jan 2018, 09:52 pm
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

In the manual:
"During normal operation, the Theft Alarm / Immobilizer Light will come on for three (3) seconds immediately after the ignition switch is turned on for a bulb check. Afterwords, if the bulb remains on, this indicates a problem with the electronics. If the bulb begins to flash after the bulb check, this indicates that an invalid key has been used to start the vehicle. Both of these conditions will result in the engine being shut off after two (2) seconds of running. Keep in mind that a key which has not been programmed is also considered an invalid key even if it is cut to fit the ignition lock cylinder for that vehicle.
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Old 09 Jan 2018, 12:20 am
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

Just to clarify, after the normal startup dash lightshow, the security LED goes out, then comes back on steady, not blinking. No crank or start when I turn the key to Start, just...nothing.

About three years ago I was driving this car when suddenly I lost engine power and the LED security light came on steady. Turned out it was a blown 20A fuse in the underhood Power Distribution Center. Replaced it, and all was well. Can't recall which one it was now, but I tested all 20A fuses in that box and all are ok.

So...where can I find Fuse #33 so I can check it?

Thanks.
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Old 09 Jan 2018, 02:16 am
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

Quote:
Originally Posted by inertian View Post
Just to clarify, after the normal startup dash lightshow, the security LED goes out, then comes back on steady, not blinking. No crank or start when I turn the key to Start, just...nothing.

About three years ago I was driving this car when suddenly I lost engine power and the LED security light came on steady. Turned out it was a blown 20A fuse in the underhood Power Distribution Center. Replaced it, and all was well. Can't recall which one it was now, but I tested all 20A fuses in that box and all are ok.

So...where can I find Fuse #33 so I can check it?

Thanks.
Sorry about the fuse #33. I got the second generation mixed up with the first generation. Only the second generation has fuse #33.
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 09 Jan 2018 at 02:44 am.
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Old 09 Jan 2018, 04:45 pm
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Location: Lindenhurst, NY
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

So if it is a bad PCM/ECM/ECU, any recommendations where to purchase a replacement? The prices I've seen on line for pre-programmed ones are all over the place...

Also, does it have to be an '04 unit, or would another year ('03, '05) work as well as long as it's for the 2.4L turbo (lite) engine?

Thanks.
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Old 09 Jan 2018, 07:37 pm
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 240
Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

Quote:
Problem History:
Back door left ajar overnight, weakening battery. Needed jumps with increased frequency, after about a week battery would die overnight. Last few jump attempts car would run for a few seconds then die. Final jump attempt had no crank, red security LED came on and stayed on.
Trying to start a modern car with a weak battery can cause all sorts of issues as it interrupts the read / write sequence of the anti theft.

I'm not 100% sure on your 04 but many cars use a rolling code. A serial number and a secret rolling code number in the key are sent to the key reader. If the key reader is seeing an allowable key SN and expected secret code, it says OK and writes a new secret code to the key and allows the engine to continue running.

Generally, this read write goes on while the engine is cranking / running so as not to slow the engine start process down. If the proper key # are not read, the engine shuts down. This is the 3 second start / stall that is occurring.

Remote key fobs use a similar rolling code except the lock controller is looking at a code list stored in memory. Each time a code is used, it is expecting to see a new code on the list. The lock controller looks for a code up to say 16 away from what it is expecting. This takes into account being out of range, pressing the remote and incrementing the code list by one.

Many times getting the remote to resync is pushing buttons in a sequence then inserting key in the ignition and turning to run. This includes changing a remote battery and possibly a vehicle battery.
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Old 10 Jan 2018, 09:53 am
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Default Re: Car Won't Start, Red Security LED Lit

I know you said your locksmith did come out to reprogram your keys but that didn't help. Since he was able to presumably access the module and program keys, it would seem to indicate the skim module is working. I have never come across a failed SKIM, so I don't know how they fail. They could either fail in a way where nothing works, or still allow some functions to continue to work. I do not know.

The ultragauge is limited on what codes it can read and what codes it can clear. When the locksmith was there, was he able to clear the codes? The fact that you still have a 0533 code even when he mated the keys and skim together probably would push me to believe there might be a problem with the pcm.

I have come across the solid red security light two times and it was a failed PCM on those two. On one, the red light was on and I couldn't access the PCM with my scanner at all. The other one, on an turbo PT this time, I was able access the computer and even reprogram the vin etc, but the red light would still come on even when there was no security issue. Though it did have other issues with the O2 sensors, which also were an indication of a failed pcm on this one.

I have the PCM you need for your car and I can program it for your car. If you want to try it in your car to see if it solves your problem, that's okay for me. I would only ask you to cover the shipping costs if it is not the problem and you want to send it back. It's about $20 to send it to you and probably a bit more to ship it back, if your problem isn't resolved.
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