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PT timing belt failure.

 
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 02:10 pm
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Default PT timing belt failure.

In July of 2015 SOOO BIG had a roadside timing belt failure at 82,301 miles. Fortunately it happened at idle at a stop light as I was heading to a truck stop off of I-95 for fuel.
The local fire chief was passing by and helped me push SOOO BIG to a truck stop a hundred feet down the road. The manager of the truck stop arranged for the only available resource, a mobile truck repair service, to come to my aid and upon diagnosis the timing belt was determined to be the culprit. A DAYCO WP265K4A Timing belt kit was installed. Unfortunately those limited road side resources demanded it was done right there in the truck stop parking lot. Not the best scenario.
Except for a few peripheral after installation problems SOOO BIG's been fine till a recurrence of a warning whirring noise less than 7000 mile later. (89,238) It's determined to be coming from under the timing cover. Thanks for all the answers to my questions leading to tomorrow's SOOO BIG Monday fix.

Coming to the crux of this thread. I dug out that souvenir box of parts taken out of SOOO BIG at that 2015 road side failure and took some detailed photos of those parts. Perhaps a Forum expert evaluation of what exactly caused the earlier failure can be determined by seeing these parts. Below are photos of the parts that came out submitted for an opinioned evaluation. The timing belt has the look of an Appalachian Grandpa. A corncob of teeth missing. From the deflection with my thumb you can see the camshaft belt idler is wobbly. The tensioner seems to turn freely. The AC water pump turns w/o wobble but with slight rotation resistance.There's a lot of belt dust on all three parts. I'm very fortunate that there was no internal engine damage to SOOO BIG.

It's a chicken or egg thing. I'd just like to know what actually precipitated that road side break down in 2015.
Was that AC water pump that came out in 2015 an indication that at least the water pump had been replaced prior to me getting SOOO BIG?
This doesn't have anything to do with what's going on under SOOO BIG's timing cover now, it'd just be a further PT education for me.

Thanks, Happy PTin', ptprice


All these parts removed from SOOO BIG in 2015
SSPX0096 (480x640).jpg
old DAYCO timing belt kit box
SSPX0085 (640x480).jpg

SSPX0086 (640x480).jpg
missing teeth on old timing belt

SSPX0089 (640x480).jpg

SSPX0090 (640x480).jpg

SSPX0091 (640x480).jpg

SSPX0092 (640x480).jpg
wobbles in cam shaft belt idler. Notice the deflection in the four photos

SSPX0094 (640x480).jpg
tensioner turns freely

SSPX0087 (640x480).jpg


SSPX0088 (640x480).jpg
water pump turn with the slight resistance. Is the AC brand original to the PT?
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SOOO BIG 2005 PT CRUISER, LIMITED EDITION, SIGNATURE SERIES
Custom Cool Vanilla White, 3 Coats. 2.4 DOHC 16V SMPI Eng. Vanity Cover, 4 Spd. Auto Trans. 2.6 Overall Top Gear, Lock-up Torque Converter. Aluminum Chrome Clad 16" X 6" Wheels, P205/55 R16 Cooper Touring tires, Touring Suspension. Chrome Package; Side Spears, Grills, Fuel Filler Door, Door Locks, Handles, PRND3-1 Bezel, Silver/Chrome Shift Ball/Knob, Bright Spoke Leather Tilt Steering Wheel. Chrome Tail Lights, 3/8" Belt Trim. Cruise Control, Power Mirrors, A/C, Deep Tinted Sun Screen Glass, Power Moon Roof, Fog and Back-Up Lights, Rear Spoiler, Variable Front Wipers W/Washers, Rear Wiper/Washer, Key less Entry, Replacement 2001 Dark Taupe Grey Suede/Leather Trim Seats, Dual Under Seat Storage Drawers, Drivers Side Power Seat Height Adjust. Full Length Console, Locking Glove Box, Overhead Temperature/Compass Console, Rear Shelf Panel, AM/FM CD GPS Navigation Radio, 6 Premium Speakers, Back up Camera/ 7" Monitor.

Last edited by ptprice; 22 Jan 2018 at 08:05 am.
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Old 21 Jan 2018, 02:22 pm
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

Hey Price,

I believe it would be impossible for us to know why the belt failed unless we were there to see it for ourselves. Without knowing anything else, my guess would be that the tensioner was over tightened. My experience is that it takes time to get it right and the engine needs to be run and then the tension rechecked to make sure. If the mechanic grossly overtightened the tensioner, you could foreseeably get premature idler bearing wear, belt dust and early failure. But again, without being there to see things ourselves, all we can do is speculate.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 07:03 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
Hey Price,

I believe it would be impossible for us to know why the belt failed unless we were there to see it for ourselves. Without knowing anything else, my guess would be that the tensioner was over tightened. My experience is that it takes time to get it right and the engine needs to be run and then the tension rechecked to make sure. If the mechanic grossly over tightened the tensioner, you could foreseeably get premature idler bearing wear, belt dust and early failure. But again, without being there to see things ourselves, all we can do is speculate.
Todd. Thanks for the insightful reply. I'd hoped the photos and my meager description of those old parts might compensate for not having a "hands on, visual" evaluation. Happy PTin', ptprice
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SOOO BIG 2005 PT CRUISER, LIMITED EDITION, SIGNATURE SERIES
Custom Cool Vanilla White, 3 Coats. 2.4 DOHC 16V SMPI Eng. Vanity Cover, 4 Spd. Auto Trans. 2.6 Overall Top Gear, Lock-up Torque Converter. Aluminum Chrome Clad 16" X 6" Wheels, P205/55 R16 Cooper Touring tires, Touring Suspension. Chrome Package; Side Spears, Grills, Fuel Filler Door, Door Locks, Handles, PRND3-1 Bezel, Silver/Chrome Shift Ball/Knob, Bright Spoke Leather Tilt Steering Wheel. Chrome Tail Lights, 3/8" Belt Trim. Cruise Control, Power Mirrors, A/C, Deep Tinted Sun Screen Glass, Power Moon Roof, Fog and Back-Up Lights, Rear Spoiler, Variable Front Wipers W/Washers, Rear Wiper/Washer, Key less Entry, Replacement 2001 Dark Taupe Grey Suede/Leather Trim Seats, Dual Under Seat Storage Drawers, Drivers Side Power Seat Height Adjust. Full Length Console, Locking Glove Box, Overhead Temperature/Compass Console, Rear Shelf Panel, AM/FM CD GPS Navigation Radio, 6 Premium Speakers, Back up Camera/ 7" Monitor.

Last edited by ptprice; 22 Jan 2018 at 07:52 am.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 08:08 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

What is interesting for me to see is the construction of the old belt. It appears that the cogs on the belt are one of the final things to get vulcanized to the belt. There are circumferential grooves going around the inside of the belt; presumably made to have a rough surface to have the cogs stick to. You can see those grooves are present under the area the cogs had been. The cogs got stripped off cleanly. Almost perfectly clean!

Perhaps all belts are made this way. Who knows, but the way those cogs tore off cleanly is not confidence inspiring. Was that an original Mopar branded belt? The water pump does seem to have a Chrysler part number and logos, indicating that if it was not original, that it had been replaced with 'genuine' replacements.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 08:51 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by myckee View Post
What is interesting for me to see is the construction of the old belt. It appears that the cogs on the belt are one of the final things to get vulcanized to the belt. There are circumferential grooves going around the inside of the belt; presumably made to have a rough surface to have the cogs stick to. You can see those grooves are present under the area the cogs had been. The cogs got stripped off cleanly. Almost perfectly clean!

Perhaps all belts are made this way. Who knows, but the way those cogs tore off cleanly is not confidence inspiring. Was that an original Mopar branded belt? The water pump does seem to have a Chrysler part number and logos, indicating that if it was not original, that it had been replaced with 'genuine' replacements.
That's about a $100 word isn't it

I have one of my old original MOPAR timing belts that I can dig out and disect and see if they are made in the same manner as the one ptprice has.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 09:04 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

I think it's cool that your timing belt was changed by a mobile repair service in a parking lot.. NEAT!
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 09:08 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob302 View Post
I think it's cool that your timing belt was changed by a mobile repair service in a parking lot.. NEAT!
What would be even neater is to have streaming audio from the mobile mechanic as he was disecting the specimen!
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 10:34 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

[QUOTE=Imakenocents;680975]

thatmakesnosense

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Old 22 Jan 2018, 10:42 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

[QUOTE=rob302;680980]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakenocents View Post

thatmakesnosense

Makes a whole lot of sense, since my last name is Price.
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Old 22 Jan 2018, 11:52 am
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Default Re: PT timing belt failure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob302 View Post
I think it's cool that your timing belt was changed by a mobile repair service in a parking lot.. NEAT!
Rob. Even more fun was the layover motel I stayed in and the "lady of the night" who was determined to give me a "massage"! I don't think she meant massage. But I'm here to report I never found out. I think that story is documented in Forum annals some time in late 2015.

Happy PTin', ptprice
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SOOO BIG 2005 PT CRUISER, LIMITED EDITION, SIGNATURE SERIES
Custom Cool Vanilla White, 3 Coats. 2.4 DOHC 16V SMPI Eng. Vanity Cover, 4 Spd. Auto Trans. 2.6 Overall Top Gear, Lock-up Torque Converter. Aluminum Chrome Clad 16" X 6" Wheels, P205/55 R16 Cooper Touring tires, Touring Suspension. Chrome Package; Side Spears, Grills, Fuel Filler Door, Door Locks, Handles, PRND3-1 Bezel, Silver/Chrome Shift Ball/Knob, Bright Spoke Leather Tilt Steering Wheel. Chrome Tail Lights, 3/8" Belt Trim. Cruise Control, Power Mirrors, A/C, Deep Tinted Sun Screen Glass, Power Moon Roof, Fog and Back-Up Lights, Rear Spoiler, Variable Front Wipers W/Washers, Rear Wiper/Washer, Key less Entry, Replacement 2001 Dark Taupe Grey Suede/Leather Trim Seats, Dual Under Seat Storage Drawers, Drivers Side Power Seat Height Adjust. Full Length Console, Locking Glove Box, Overhead Temperature/Compass Console, Rear Shelf Panel, AM/FM CD GPS Navigation Radio, 6 Premium Speakers, Back up Camera/ 7" Monitor.

Last edited by ptprice; 22 Jan 2018 at 12:07 pm.
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