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Strange no crank/no start problem

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 11:03 am
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Default Strange no crank/no start problem

My son's 2005 convertible has been running poorly as of late, threw a few codes...so I figured I would start with the camshaft, crankshaft sensors to get rid of those codes and see how much better it would get. Not the first time I changed the camshaft sensor...aftermarket ones don't last. But first time for the crankshaft one. That one was hard to get out...must have never been changed.

Here's where it gets odd...it would start and run 'fine' before the sensors were changed.

Now it will not crank...at all, dash lights up...security light goes out...
when you turn the key...no click...nothing

AND I can not hear the fuel pump prime either...


SO...

I have checked fuses and relays...
tested the horn and used it in the both
the fuel pump relay and starter relay...no change

I have tested for 12 volts when I turn the key on
at both the fuel pump and starter relays and I get 12 volts
when I turn the key.

I can jump the starter relay and get the engine to turn over...
I have watched the youtube about the ignition switch actuator
breaking...so I dug into my column and my switch is fine,
no broken pieces.

I have a 2004 turbo with the exact same ecm...part number
matches...so I swapped in the other ecm, knowing that in 'theory'
it should start for 3 seconds and then turn off....BUT no
changes at all...no click no turn over...

I am stumped...any ideas??
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 11:48 am
LionPT's Avatar
Veteran Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 4,372
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Crankshaft Sensors are delicate.
Either you broke it installing it...or...you knocked off the green starter wire.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 11:48 am
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
Posts: 7,339
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by 71cuda2 View Post
My son's 2005 convertible has been running poorly as of late, threw a few codes...so I figured I would start with the camshaft, crankshaft sensors to get rid of those codes and see how much better it would get. Not the first time I changed the camshaft sensor...aftermarket ones don't last. But first time for the crankshaft one. That one was hard to get out...must have never been changed.

Here's where it gets odd...it would start and run 'fine' before the sensors were changed.

Now it will not crank...at all, dash lights up...security light goes out...
when you turn the key...no click...nothing

AND I can not hear the fuel pump prime either...


SO...

I have checked fuses and relays...
tested the horn and used it in the both
the fuel pump relay and starter relay...no change

I have tested for 12 volts when I turn the key on
at both the fuel pump and starter relays and I get 12 volts
when I turn the key.

I can jump the starter relay and get the engine to turn over...
I have watched the youtube about the ignition switch actuator
breaking...so I dug into my column and my switch is fine,
no broken pieces.

I have a 2004 turbo with the exact same ecm...part number
matches...so I swapped in the other ecm, knowing that in 'theory'
it should start for 3 seconds and then turn off....BUT no
changes at all...no click no turn over...

I am stumped...any ideas??
First of all you need to put the original parts back in the Pt Cruiser. The more parts you replace the more variables that can make it more difficult to find the problem.

Always start with the codes. Post what codes you were getting before replacing parts.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm
Handy_Cruiser's Avatar
Obsessed Cruiser
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,433
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

The non-starting issue sound like a SKIM lockout. To check, turn the key to the on position and see if the little red SKIM light above the fuel and temp gauges stays on or if it goes out after a while with the key on.

If the light goes out after a while, please report back and we can go further.

But if the light stays on and doesn't go out, something may be activating the SKIM. And once you tried to start your PT too many times with SKIM activated, it will shut off the fuel pump and the starter relay. You will need to turn the ignition on (with the Sentry key) and let the car sit for about an hour to reset it.

Also, understand that normally, the cam and crank sensors don't go bad at the same time. This is often caused by either a slipped timing belt or damage to the wiring harness. If the harness is damaged, this may have caused your non-starting issues either directly or by cause the SKIM to activate. So checking the SKIM light may just be the first step to figuring this out.

If you need a copy of the manual for your car, you may be able to download it from my Google Drive here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9C...ew?usp=sharing

I can't get to my drive from where I'm at right now. So if this link is too old and doesn't work, I can post another one this evening unless another member sends you one in the mean time.
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Last edited by Handy_Cruiser; 04 Jun 2018 at 12:08 pm.
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Old 04 Jun 2018, 12:10 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Thanks for the reply...
BUT I know I didn't break the crankshaft sensor...
it never fell or dropped, although it is certainly
possible to be bad out of the box.

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but knocking off
the green 'starter' wire would also prevent the
engine from turning over when I jump the relay...
So, I'm fairly certain the wire is fine...BUT I will
check...I had a good view of it as I took out the
radiator and starter when I got to the crankshaft
sensor when I replaced it.


As for putting the old parts back on...that is silly.
To the best of my knowledge neither part would
prevent the car from turning over...perhaps either
could prevent it from starting after it turns over,
it just will not turn over.


Does anyone have experience with the TRS,
transmission range sensor??? If that has failed,
would it prevent the engine from turning over??
I'm leaning toward that...BUT it certainly looks like
a bear to change.


Thanks again for your time and input.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 12:17 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Ok...as for the 'skim' light...sentry system, 'gotta'
love that piece of security.


The light does come on, then turns off as normal...
I have both original keys...and fobs.

When I swapped in the other cars ECM, I took notice
of the light knowing it would not turn off...AND it didn't.
BUT when the car's own ECM is in it...it does it's 'post' test
and then turns off...so I know that the sentry system
should not be the culprit.

I didn't turn the car off and on 'several' times...or at all after
the new sensors. BUT I'm willing to try that theory...
How do I try to reset the system??

thanks...
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 12:22 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Also...

It is possible for it to be a harness problem...
BUT I certainly hope not, I'm from Florida and
we have had our share of problems with rats
and wiring harness.

In fact the ECM I borrowed is out of a 2004 car
that rats at the wiring harness 2 winters ago...

I'm still waiting to find the correct harness at the pull
it yard to replace it...BUT this car was not near where
we have had problems...but I will not rule that out...

thanks
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 02:01 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Well...I rechecked the starter wire, it's good.
I retested all the relays by swapping them to the horn, all good.
I recleaned the battery terminals.
I retested the starter relay voltage, 12+V when the key is on.
I retested the fuel pump relay, 12+v when the key is on.

I shot starting fluid in the throttle body thinking it would
pop off a little when I jumped the starter relay...no fire.


SO, I wonder since I do not hear the fuel pump...is there a fuel
pump fuse...I can not find one...


ALSO, my brother in Minnesota, who is a mechanic...and is surprisingly

no answering his phone...he hates Chrysler questions, he was dropped
on his head as a child and bleeds ford blue...


he mentioned that I should have 1 of the 4 pins of the fuel pump relay
constant 12V and 1 that turns on to 12v with the key...but I don't
have a constant 12v...


Does anyone know...IF the fuel pump does not prime, thus NO fuel
pressure...would the absence of fuel pressure make the ECM turn off
spark to the engine?? I mean, key on, starting fluid in throttle body,
jump the starter relay and no fire...maybe this is where it is going...
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04 Jun 2018, 04:32 pm
Fresh Cruiser
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 34
Default Re: Strange no crank/no start problem

Well...problem solved.

It ended up being the FP/ASD fuse in the PDC under the hood.

I have taken the fuse out to visually inspect it...I did that for all
the fuses and the fuse looks good, but it did have a little bit of
brown on the back side that I didn't see before. Put a meter on
it and it was bad, it must have burnt out by one of the legs...
not in the center.

Put in a new 20A fuse...and it started right up. I knew it was OK
as soon as I heard the fuel pump prime...AND no codes so far.


Thanks for everyone's help and input...until next time.
rckstein, Fk5, Cat22 and 2 others like this.
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