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Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20 Jan 2020, 12:47 pm
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Default Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

Oh boy, this aught to be fun.

Recently had a weird issue pop up with my 2004 PT GT (decided to post about it here since I assume it's something all of us N/A and Turbo guys might have to deal with). It's been misfiring bad, I assumed it was the coil since it was never replaced, so I fired her up to pull it in the shop and swap out the coil and do a little diagnosing. It was idling pretty good for a minute, but then it suddenly shut itself off. It wouldn't restart, no starter click, no fuel pump priming, and the dash was lit up oddly (I'll attach a picture). The engine light and lovely security light were lit up, and something else weird was the square rings around the "shiftier position indicators" (the P, R, N, and D) were all lit up as well. I tried to cycle the key to see if there were any codes but that feature was dead, and when I plugged in my Autel OBD2 reader, the OBD2 was completely dead as well. After unplugging the battery briefly, I got the car to fire up, but 30 seconds later it shut itself back off. Now I've tried unplugging the battery and PCM overnight, and I even swapped out my Stage 1 PCM (my most prized possession ) for my old PCM, but it's still locked up.

I haven't seen anybody talk specifically about these symptoms and combination of lights on. Anybody else ever seen this? Should I just face the fact that I have to deal with security issues now?

Any insight would be appreciated, and I'll keep working and updating below for anybody who has a similar issue in the future! (I feel bad for being so inactive here except when I have a question, cranking out those videos has been keeping me busy ). Thanks guys!

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Old 20 Jan 2020, 01:09 pm
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

This sounds like a failed PCM. Here's some things I might try first.

1. I would attached a code reader and write down the trouble codes, then report them here.

2. If the reader will not communicate, then the chances of a failed PCM are pretty high.

3. Next, I'd inspect the wiring harness to the PCM to assure no damage. I'd also make sure the four PCM plugs are seated and haven't become loose. I would also check for oil bleeding out of the PCM plugs. This happens when an oil sending unit fails and pumps oil up the wire loom to the PCM plugs.

4. If no joy, I would remove both battery cables and touch them together for 10 minutes. Then reinstall and see if symptoms go way. If not, I would read the codes again and post them here.

It should be noted that while I am an ASE Certified Master Automotive Tech and an excellent lover, I primarily work as a Safety Engineer among other things and I haven't worked as a professional mechanic since I was young strapping lad with long sexy flowing hair before college. And even then, I mainly worked on big trucks and heavy equipment. Nowadays, I enjoy working on these funny looking little cars for fun and relaxation. And I help others when I can.
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Old 20 Jan 2020, 01:31 pm
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

Thanks for the quick reply Handy_Cruiser!! That's a huge help.

That was my initial thought as well, yet another PCM failure even thought the "security light" is on it wasn't acting like a typical security issue (that I know of). Plus, a PCM issue would explain the weird misfire. The only thing is when I swapped out to my old PCM it keeps having the same problem, but we shall see! I'm gonna tinker with it and try to find out, it could be one of the connectors or something related to that!
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Old 20 Jan 2020, 05:49 pm
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

I would suggest doing a diagnosis before replacing any other components.

I would first suggest checking the Fuel pump / ASD fuse in the PDC under the hood as the first step.
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Old 20 Jan 2020, 06:09 pm
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by channelcge View Post
Thanks for the quick reply Handy_Cruiser!! That's a huge help.

That was my initial thought as well, yet another PCM failure even thought the "security light" is on it wasn't acting like a typical security issue (that I know of). Plus, a PCM issue would explain the weird misfire. The only thing is when I swapped out to my old PCM it keeps having the same problem, but we shall see! I'm gonna tinker with it and try to find out, it could be one of the connectors or something related to that!
Interesting that your other PCM does the same thing. I'm assuming that your other PCM is your non-Stage 1 PCM and not the bad PCM you traded out in the past, right?

Taking the cables loose and touching them together for 10 minutes should reset the SKIM lockout if that's the deal. Then it should start and die with in a few second if the SKIM can no longer read your sentry key. But that will not explain the other issues. Have you read your trouble codes, and if so what are they?

Knowing that the other PCM does the same thing, I'm thinking a bad connection or broken wire somewhere. But you should be getting trouble codes with all of this.
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Old 29 Jan 2020, 03:32 pm
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

I am still baffled!

Sorry it's been a little while, my other Cruiser projects have been keeping me busy, but I finally had a few minutes today to tinker with the GT again. I gave all the connectors and wires running off the PCM a visual inspection and nothing caught my eye, and I also checked every fuse and relay I could find (I also wasn't sure if a blown fuse could cause the PCM to lose power for some reason). Nothing seems out of the ordinary, but who knows without diving in deeper. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was some sort of wiring issue.
Again, I swapped out the Stage 1 PCM for another *working* stock PCM I have for that car, and the symptoms persist. I've plugged in multiple OBD2 readers, including my nice Autel unit, but there seems to be no power running to the OBD as I can't even get the reader to fire up. I've also tried the key-cycling trick multiple times to try to display a code, but even that feature refuses to work.

One last idea, I've never worked with anything BCM or TIPM related before, I don't even know if the car has a separate BCM unit or where it would be located, but is there any chance something like that could be causing the issue? I'm out of ideas to consider without starting the painful process of wire checking

Any thoughts would be appreciated, working hard to figure out a solution for anybody that might have the same issue in the future!
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Old 30 Jan 2020, 08:19 am
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

I don't THINK the PT's have a stand alone BCM. I DO think that feature is built in to the PCM. BUT, I'm not an ASE Certified Master Mechanic, like Handy Cruiser, so I COULD be wrong.
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Old 30 Jan 2020, 11:08 am
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

I would suggest checking the ground wires from your data link connector going to the G102 ground point on the passenger fender. This is a common set of ground wires that gets corroded and looses ground contact.
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Old 18 Feb 2020, 08:23 pm
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

I FINALLY FOUND IT!

My poor baby had to sit untouched outside for the past 2 or 3 weeks while I worked on my other 2 cruisers, as well as my dad's blown up water pump in his old Cadillac But I finally got the time to pull the old PT GT into the shop and start looking over the wiring, I checked over the ground harnesses and looked over all the obvious PCM wire harnesses but I couldn't find anything out of the ordinary, yet it still seemed like somehow just the PCM wasn't getting power..

To be safe I decided to check through the fuses and relays again, especially the ASD relay. I swapped them back and forth and continued fiddling around with the fuses and had no luck. Since I didn't fully understand what ASD was at the time, I also didn't realize there was a separate ASD fuse, so I checked that and it looked okay- hey, wait a second...
I don't have a fuse checker or I might have found this before, but this time after pulling the ASD fuse I noticed a tiny dot that looked like the fuse had blown and melted, even though the fuse itself looked in tact, so I didn't notice it previously. I threw a new 20A in place of it, and ta da! She fired right up! What a joyous moment

So ptcruisersteve had it right, previously I didn't know that ASD stood for, and I thought it was just some sort of fuel pump cut off, but ASD is actually short for "Automatic Shut Down," and it will cut power to the PCM if it's blown. The more you know!

It sounds like if a worn fuel pump is drawing more load than it should, it can trip this fuse off, so I'm starting to wonder if that's the cause of my miserable misfire. I'll play around with the multi-meter tomorrow to try to figure that out.

I hope this helps out someone who was as baffled as me, the ASD fuse can cut power to the PCM and it's always the place to start when an issue like this comes up! Thank you all for the very qualified help, I'm just a kid that loves playing with cars and making videos, but the PT community is responsible for almost all my knowledge of cars, you guys are great!


P.S. I'll be posting a video of my pathetic struggle on my channel in the next couple days
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Old 19 Feb 2020, 12:18 am
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Default Re: Security issues? Wont start + odd dash lights

Glad you got your Pt Cruiser running.

I would suggest you check the fuel pressure. Also do a fuel pressure leak down test
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Last edited by ptcruisersteve; 19 Feb 2020 at 12:24 am.
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