Hybrid Performance

[strangelove]

Now thats what I'm talking about robinjoe. Although the Prius motor would be a little pricey and probably pretty difficult to get, since Toyota is in high gear in Hybrid production; you could get a hold of some refurbished two ton rated forklift motors for a lot cheaper. Forklift motors are designed to handle tons of torque and are also designed to accelerate smoothly, as not to tip over heavy cargo when moving. If you have ever operated a forklift then you probably know how smooth it drives. Add in some high voltage capacitors and you'd be smokin. How about routing the circut from the PT alternator to allow the engine to charge the batteries while you are driving at highway speeds. Then when you exit the freeway depend more on the electric motors for stop and go traffic. Stop at a light and some V8 Hemi starts rumbling next to you, floor it at green, getting power from the front wheels powered by good ole fashin gasoline engine, and an added kick in the rear wheels powered by two forklift motors. Gas mileage optional.[8)]

[quicksilverdon]

Except the weight of the motors, plus the weight of the batteries, would inflate the weight of our already porky PT.
Remeber, Force = Mass x Acceleration. (or Acceleration = Force/Mass)

[robinjoe]

I'm sure that the HP and torque added would more than compensate for the added weight.

But think about the economics. If a manufacturer produced these in-wheel hybrid systems in two or three sizes (one for passenger cars and one for SUVs), they could be mass produced and sold to every car manufacturer. Instead of each manufacturer comming up with five or six systems for their various chasis/engines, three or four models (say 15", 18", and 20") would fit every car in the world with a simple hub adapter for each vehicle.

By manufacturing at such a large volume, the costs would plummet. I could easily see these as being a $3,000 options on most cars within a few years. Of course, they could also be sold as an after-market upgrade.

Of course, I'm not basing that $3,000 number on any "facts", just a sense from what I'm reading in this thread, and the fact that adding a hybrid option to the current cars, like Accord, Civic, Hylander, etc., adds about $7,000.

[fritz_t_coyote]

quote:Originally posted by strangelove

How about routing the circut from the PT alternator to allow the engine to charge the batteries while you are driving at highway speeds.

The hybrids out there use the motors as generators. This is important as the little bitty alternator that was designed for 'normal' gas engine use does not have the amperage to charge the big-ole hybrid battery pack.

Instead the rear wheels would be Slightly Dragging at highway speed, and relying heavily on regenerative braking to charge the battery pack. Or else (or AND) you need to plug it in when you park it.

The =Plug it in when you park it= is a favorite hack for the volt-heads. There are claims of 100mpg. Of course the 'cost per mile' depends now on cheap electricity. But if you a real alternative engineering type you already have a windmill.

This is also why Piouses get such great EPA mileage, and lousy Real World mileage:
For the EPA test the Pious starts out with a full battery charge.
At the end of the test the EPA measures how much gas was consumed, but does NOT examine how much of the battery charge was consumed. This inflates the gas numbers.

[strangelove]

quote:Originally posted by robinjoe

I'm sure that the HP and torque added would more than compensate for the added weight.

But think about the economics. If a manufacturer produced these in-wheel hybrid systems in two or three sizes (one for passenger cars and one for SUVs), they could be mass produced and sold to every car manufacturer. Instead of each manufacturer comming up with five or six systems for their various chasis/engines, three or four models (say 15", 18", and 20") would fit every car in the world with a simple hub adapter for each vehicle.

By manufacturing at such a large volume, the costs would plummet. I could easily see these as being a $3,000 options on most cars within a few years. Of course, they could also be sold as an after-market upgrade.

Of course, I'm not basing that $3,000 number on any "facts", just a sense from what I'm reading in this thread, and the fact that adding a hybrid option to the current cars, like Accord, Civic, Hylander, etc., adds about $7,000.

Yep totally agree with you on that. If there was a demand for in-wheel ac motors manufacturers like Mitsubishi would make millions selling them to after market car owners that want to add power.

As for the weight issue, I think the PT could shed some pounds here and there. I've been toying with the idea of hotrodding my PT by stripping it down to it's absolute essentials. First to go are the rear seats, who needs those, replacing the hood and rear hatch with carbon fiber, removing all of the interior paneling and carpeting to bare metal. I think the PT could shed enough pounds to offset the weight gain from the hybrid components added to it. So goodbye to most of the creature comforts, but hello performance. I think I'll keep the heated leather seats though.

[calicranberry]

quote:Yep totally agree with you on that. If there was a demand for in-wheel ac motors manufacturers like Mitsubishi would make millions selling them to after market car owners that want to add power.

you know when i was a boy my mom always said i would never drive a car, because in the future we would have flying cars like the jetsons. she was a little optimistic. kinda reminds me of this topic. it is a great idea and wonderful to dream about, but not going to happen any time soon. if it was at all easy, i'd guess we would already see it in racing applications. i know toyota has a racing prius (more for show than go), but i do not see schumacher racing a hybrid ferrari. not that honda or toyota may not be trying to put it into their indy cars, but still it will take years to see something like this develop from dream to race use to an after market add on. it seems there are tons of development, safety, technology, and practicality issues that need to be thought out and tested before this can become a common thing, not to mention billions of development dollars (and last time i looked, mitsu was broke and shunned by DCX). like i said before, it is a nice idea, i just think we need to let technology catch up. Nasa has been making rockets for years, and there are lots of geeks and high school kids that make 'em as well, but that does not mean that i can go to pep boys and put a solid fuel rocket on the top of my PT and turn it into that flying car i always dreamed of.

[strangelove]

Why could'nt you strap a rocket to the top of your roof

[strangelove]

All right, here is another example of a car that has been converted to use a gasoline engine to power the front wheels and a electric hybrid motor to power the rear wheels. Designed and built by an Italian customizer called Castagna Milano, this BMW Mini Cooper Plug-In-Hybrid is just another example of the technology driving this thread. Check it out.

http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.c...=221&archive=0

quote:This year, they took the wildly popular BMW Mini Cooper and turned it into a plug-in hybrid. Rather than go to the expense of having to engineer a hybrid drive like you'd find in the Prius or Escape, they simply left the transverse, IC engine in place under the front "bonnet" (hood for us Yankees). Instead, they re-engineered the rear axle and beefed up the car's suspension, installing an electric motor to drive the rear wheels at the flip of a switch by the driver. I am told that the battery is a ZEBRA sodium nickel chloride from MES DEA in Switzerland and that the company has warranted it for five years.

[fritz_t_coyote]

quote:Originally posted by calicranberry

... in the future we would have flying cars

Consider how many people cannot control a car in 2 dimensions.

Just the thought of having to watch for drunks swerving from altitude to altitude along with Lane to Lane makes me Very Glad we don't have flying cars.

Or, rather 'they' don't have flying cars. All of us, of course, would be perfectly competent, law-abiding, friendly and respectful drivers.

Of course we would all be b1tch1ng about the rising price of garbage for our Mr. Fusion reactors used to power our flying cars.

That and discussing if Hypergrounding our reactionless thrusters would result in a measurable difference in max delta v.

[Tweet]

Wow, many cool ideas.
I knew a fella back in the 70's who converted his Austin-Healy to all-electric. He plugged it in every night, which added $$ to his electric bill (which probably cancelled out his fuel savings) but it was a very cool ride. 0-60 in 8sec., which ain't so bad on a commuter car, and had a range of about 150 miles per charge. I'm sure another 30 years of technology advancments would improve it all the way around.
However (!!)....
Cool as all the new tech is, and viable as hybrid/alternate tech might be, the big companies (i.e. Chrysler) are all total butt-buddies with the government, and as long as there's an oil man in the White House, you're not going to see any real effort to convert anything off of oil power. Sure, you'll see speeches and press releases (....a hydrogen car in every pot....) about how hard they're all pushing alternate energy, but that's just pablum spoon-fed to the masses to keep them from revolting. In actuality, they ("they" being the powers that be) want to keep the oil flowing, and the cash flowing into their pockets.
...And on the subject of the "Powers That Be", the other day I Googled The Constitution and the Declaration of Independance (ever read these?) At the beginning of the Declaration, there is a list of reasons for wanting independance. It goes on about King George this, and did that, and did the other thing. This list is to show actual legitimate reasons for wanting to be a separate country, and to illustrate that this wasn't just a rabble-rouser idea.
But I digress.......
Read this list of offenses, and compare it with G.W. Bush's term of service. It seems to me that GWB has committed at least half of these offenses himself ! Do we need to declare ourselves independant of the US government and start over?
I don't know, but I know anyone who wants the job of governing shouln't have it!

Sorry, this has nothing to do with cars, but I couldn't help myself, and one thing leads to another..................

We now return to our regularly scheduled programming.