Hybrid Performance

[wizbang]

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[bigdogdad]

Does this have electricity envolve?

[calicranberry]

quote:Originally posted by strangelove

"If I get a hybrid the upfront cost will outweigh the savings in fuel for the life of the car." or "Hybrids are to un-tested and the maintinence cost will outweigh the savings in fuel."

What really gets me though is that nobody ever talks about how someone might upgrade a hybrid.

for certain people a hybrid will make sense no matter what the cost difference. if you buy a prius to get in the carpool lane and your commute is significantly shortened, then any additional cost is worth it. or if you do lots of stop and go city or traffic driving (and do not run your A/C), then it may be worth it. and yes, a ford escape fits your logic about price.

however, the hybrids that actually sell (the prius and civic) cost much more than an equvalent model, even with tax incentives. buy a toyota yaris (why anyone would i do not know, just an example) and you can save from 2 to 5 grand, even with a tax credit. and the yaris will deliver good gas mileage without all the additional complicated hybrid systems.

as for repairs and reliability, conventional wisdom holds that the more advanced and the more moving parts a machine has, the more likely it will break. like you point out, all cars need to be maintained and repaired, but it seems logical that a car with two power sources, complex software, and additional parts to get the two to work together will be less reliable than a car with one motor. also, the parts of a hybrid will be more costly. and in this day when service guys replace parts rather then repair them, the result will be higher service bills for hybrid parts. finally, hybrids require additional training for service, not everyone, even guys in the toyota service shop, are authorized to work on a prius. the cost of the training will be passed on to the buyer, and there are less repair options as your local independent repair shop may not have the qualifications to do the work. want a real world example? current BMW 7 and 5 series have lower reliability ratings than the previous generation, and a higher cost of ownership. why? because they have complicated electronic systems (like active steering and i drive) that fail more often than conventional counterparts, and are more costly to replace.

as for using hybrids for increased power. again, that is an idea far away. people talk about turbos and stuff because they have been around for a long time, and the technology has slowly been perfected, to the point that the average mechanic can order a turbo and bolt it on his (or her) car without having to machine parts or brackets or reprogram a computer. and a NOS system is even easier. plus these are all readily avaliable, not some experiment in a lab.

hybrids also do not inspire much passion or enthusiasm, at least in term of driving dynamics. the lexus GS hybrid just finished last in a recent comparo, and the main reason was driving dynamics. mercedes stopped doing their electronic brake by wire because no one liked the feel, and it was too difficult to engineer an electronic braking system to feel like a conventional one. most of us on this forum prefer the feel a cruiser or other fun to drive car, and until hybrids can recreate that fun to drive and intimate feel, they will not be seen as enthusiast cars.


finally, if you want to discuss upgrading a prius, i'm sure there are other forums that you can do that on.

[strangelove]

Good points Cali, What do you think about GM, Chrysler, and Mercedes opening their doors to their new Hybrid Design Center. Their plan is to catch up with the advances that Toyota, Honda and Ford have made.

Hybrids are vehicles that are not for everyone. But for those who are ready than they will benifit from these type of vehicles. It's useless to talk about more components designed into a vehicle means more to go wrong. Compare suspensions from 1970 vehicles compared to today 2006. Think of just a fraction of the amount of components that exist in vehicles today versus a few decades ago.

This thread wasn't started to just talk about Hybrids of today. This thread was started to bring hybrid technology to the PT Cruiser.

[wizbang]

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[strangelove]

Well the search for a good In-Wheel electric hub still goes on. Some promising news from Lotus has them designing a kick ass hub. Looks to be a few years off from production, but I think if you could contact the Lotus R&D department one might be able to get a working prototype for the right price. They are rating this hub to accelerate from 0 to 60mph in 4 seconds. Weld these hubs to some wheels, stick two on the back of the PT, add some Optima batteries in the back and add a secondary pedal accelerator and bing bang boom you got yourself a screaming demon hybrid machinon.

[strangelove]

One more step closer to being able to buy a in wheel hub motor. These in wheel hub motors are rated at 3000 watts and produce 120 nm/900rpm.