Class Action Suit

[Timeless]

quote:Originally posted by Dalite

I just found out that my hatch no longer activates my interior lights. I didn't bother to check to see if it still shows up on the dash (not being closed) when the car is running.

Dalite
I just checked my hatch and it does activate the interior lights and shows up on the dash. You may have an electrical problem

[earringboy]

...maybe we could use www.petitiononline.com to see how much voice we actually would have on these topics we have with Chrysler...

[Dalite]

earringboy, I followed your lead, and prepared this petition to post at the link you listed. It is open for comments, additions, deletions.

I have not posted it yet. My draft is pasted in below:
************************************************** ******
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support for filing Class Action Suit against Chrysler to restore deletions in current year model production that are potential safety concerns
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To: All agencies concerned with Automobile Safety

Petition to determine the interest in filing a Class Action Suit against Chrysler over deletions to the 2003 PT Cruiser build level that create safety issues for the driver and occupants. This is specifically the PT Cruiser GT, but may apply to all PT Cruiser models as well as other vehicles in the current year (2003) line-up. This will address 2 items that are safety oriented.

1..... The first item is the Rear Sway Bar. This is a Safety Issue.

It was made standard on the 2002 Touring Edition (TE) of the PT Cruiser.

The Press Releases, from Chrysler, announced that the 2003 GT would begin life with the suspension of the current (then 2002) TE.

The Code Sheets that the dealer's used for taking preliminary orders of the 2003 model specifically listed the Rear Sway Bar as standard equipment.

On a Front Wheel Drive (FWD) vehicle, the front suspension provides a safety parachute. It is the fact that the front wheels will go in whatever direction they are turned, when power is applied. This is especially useful to understand when a front wheel slide or breakaway occurs. However, when the rear wheels break into a slide, there is no easy way to correct the situation with more power. Furthermore, the ABS braking system will maintain a straight-line stop; as long as they are applied before the breakaway / slide starts. The need for rear suspension performance is accented by this dynamic. This is pure physics.

Yet Chrysler decided to eliminate the cost of providing the rear sway bar, even after it was printed as standard on all of the early production window stickers. Their solution to this problem was to print new window stickers and only pay for installation of the missing member on units that were sold with the original sticker and who's owners insisted upon it's installation.

Chrysler then came out with press releases touting the Watts Linkage as a replacement for the Sway Bar. However, the Watts Linkage had been used in conjunction with the Rear Sway Bar in previous year(s) production. Also, the automobile manufacturing industry had apparently not been as enlightened as Chrysler, as they continued to use both in conjunction on their models, instead of following Chrysler's earth-shattering conclusion that the Watts Linkage could do the job of both.

Hopefully, we will get enough signatures to justify the filing of a Class Action Suit to restore this cost-cutting deletion and get a response before a single life is lost due to Chrysler's decision to leave the Rear Sway Bar off in 2003 production.

2..... The second (High Note) horn is missing. This is a Safety Issue.

The second (High Note) horn was deleted from production. The wire harness still carries the leads and connector to plug into it, and a mounting hole is still present for it to be mounted. The horn carries a part number in the parts catalog for the current year model and can be ordered, bolted in and connected to provide a stock installation that matched the original intent and design.

The horn that now comes on the 2003 model is barely loud enough by itself to acknowedge that the Security System has been armed, if you should happen to be a few feet away from the vehicle when it is armed.

If there is any ambient noise present, it is doubtful that it could be heard the full distance of the Key Fob's rage of activating the Security System.

It is certainly not loud enough to be used to prevent a possible

[skylight]

quote:Originally posted by Dalite
Their solution to this problem was to print new window stickers and only pay for installation of the missing member on units that were sold with the original sticker and who's owners insisted upon it's installation.

A few points:

1: One possible edit.... Many owners with the bar on the window stickers can not get their dealer to install the bar. Also, it's not just GT's, it is every 2003 model that is missing the bar.

2: 2003 Service Manual page 2-35 shows a rear stabilizer bar.

3: DC put out a TSB informing dealers that a rear bar is not needed on the 2003's. (My dealer wouldn't let me have a copy of it, but he let me read it while he held it. ...Service Bulletin Num : 0200402; Date of Bulletin: OCT 28, 2002; Summary: REAR STABILIZER BAR TECHNICAL INFORMATION. *TT )

4: The following is an email that a Senior Staff Representative of Chrysler wrote to 'Matthew' ...

quote:


Dear Matthew,
Thank you for your email regarding the lack of an external rear stabilizer bar on your 2003 PT Cruiser.

Some confusion has been caused by the window sticker listing "Stabilizer Bar - Rear" on the 2003 PT Cruiser, due to a visual change between the 2003 vehicle and prior model years. Please be assured that the function of roll control provided by a rear stabilizer bar still exists on your 2003 PT Cruiser, even though you will not see an external stabilizer bar.

As an engineering change for the 2003 model year, DaimlerChrysler and our suppliers have developed technology to allow the internal rear stabilizer bar (which is integrated into the rear axle) to be up-sized to provide a level of roll control that equals the performance of the previous combination of internal and external bars.

In order to prevent any future confusion, the window sticker has been changed to eliminate the item from the standard equipment list. This change affects only the window sticker - the equipment specification of the vehicle is unchanged.

No equipment shortage is present on the 2003 PT Cruiser. No retrofit or adjustment is required and the addition of a supplemental external stabilizer bar on a 2003 PT Cruiser will alter the performance of the vehicle and is not recommended.

The 2003 PT Cruiser's roll control performance is in every way equivalent to that of prior model year vehicles, providing the same fun-to-drive experience which has helped make PT Cruiser a runaway success in the marketplace.
Thanks for writing.

Sincerely,
Amelia Retherford
Senior Staff Representative
DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center

[bigdogdad]

When I complained about my GT missing the rear sway bar they put a copy of the letter in my front seat. I have the letter some where in the house but can't locate it at the moment.

One thing that could be included in the letter is the one line that states:

" No equipment shortage is present on the 2003 PT Cruiser. No retrofit or adjustment is required and the addition of a supplemental external stabilizer bar on a 2003 PT Cruiser will alter the performance of the vehicle and is not recommended. "

Why in the world, may I asked, are the service departments going "against" Chrylser and installing the rear sway bar anyway? Of course, on our dime. Chrylser told them that it would alter the performance and not recommended.

Chrysler is saving money and the dealerships are selling us something we apparently don't need and shouldn't have installed for our own safety.

I say let get this petition rolling. [?]

[traciann]

Chrysler has insulted our intelligence by stating the twist beam 'replaces' the sway bar. Regardless of what they say, I want what I paid for. If they hadn't stated on my window sticker that it had a swaybar, then I wouldn't be asking for one.

The sales manager at my dealership said if it was on the sticker, then it should be on the car. Now, his story has changed to the same 'canned statement' they are telling everyone....the design has changed. Had they disclosed this to me the day I purchased my PT GT (September 15, 2002), that would be one thing, but since their first disclosure was supposidly October 22, 2002 - this makes absolutely no difference at all to me. I want what I paid for - it's as simple as that.

Count me in, whatever it takes.

TraciAnn
Stock GT autostick, clear coated steel blue pearl w/shortie antenna and ZOOM sticker

[Dalite]

2nd revision:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Support for filing Class Action Suit against Chrysler to restore deletions in current year model production that are potential safety concerns
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


To: All agencies concerned with Automobile Safety

Petition to determine the interest in filing a Class Action Suit against Chrysler over deletions to the 2003 PT Cruiser build level that create safety issues for the driver and occupants. This is specifically the PT Cruiser GT, but may apply to all PT Cruiser models as well as other vehicles in the current year (2003) line-up. This will address 2 items that are safety oriented.

1..... The first item is the Rear Sway Bar. This is a Safety Issue.

It was made standard on the 2002 Touring Edition (TE) of the PT Cruiser.

2003 Service Manual page 2-35 shows a rear stabilizer bar

The Press Releases, from Chrysler, announced that the 2003 GT would begin life with the suspension of the current (then 2002) TE.

The Code Sheets that the dealer's used for taking preliminary orders of the 2003 model specifically listed the Rear Sway Bar as standard equipment.

Yet Chrysler decided to eliminate the cost of providing the rear sway bar, even after it was printed as standard on all of the early production window stickers. Their solution to this problem was to print new window stickers and only pay for installation of some of the units that were sold with the original sticker and who's owners insisted upon it's installation. Many owners with the bar on the window stickers can not get their dealer to install the bar. Also, it's not just GT's, it is every 2003 model that is missing the bar.

DC put out a TSB informing dealers that a rear bar is not needed on the 2003'sService Bulletin Number: 0200402; Date of Bulletin: OCT 28, 2002; Summary: REAR STABILIZER BAR TECHNICAL INFORMATION. Many service departments read this with the same shock as the customer, and some dealerships installed it anyway; out of concern for the customer’s safety and in defense of the concept of integrity.

Chrysler then came out with press releases touting the Watts Linkage as a replacement for the Sway Bar. However, the Watts Linkage had been used in conjunction with the Rear Sway Bar in previous year(s) production. Also, the automobile manufacturing industry had apparently not been as enlightened as Chrysler, as they continued to use both in conjunction on their models, instead of following Chrysler's earth-shattering conclusion that the Watts Linkage could do the job of both.

Here is their attempt to explain away their denial of the basic laws of physics. It is an insult to all.:
***********************
Dear XXXXXX,

Thank you for your email regarding the lack of an external rear stabilizer bar on your 2003 PT Cruiser.

Some confusion has been caused by the window sticker listing "Stabilizer Bar - Rear" on the 2003 PT Cruiser, due to a visual change between the 2003 vehicle and prior model years. Please be assured that the function of roll control provided by a rear stabilizer bar still exists on your 2003 PT Cruiser, even though you will not see an external stabilizer bar.

As an engineering change for the 2003 model year, DaimlerChrysler and our suppliers have developed technology to allow the internal rear stabilizer bar (which is integrated into the rear axle) to be up-sized to provide a level of roll control that equals the performance of the previous combination of internal and external bars.

In order to prevent any future confusion, the window sticker has been changed to eliminate the item from the standard equipment list. This change affects only the window sticker - the equipment specification of the vehicle is unchanged.

No equipment shortage is present on the 2003 PT Cruiser. No retrofit or adjustment is required and the addition of a supplemental external stabilizer bar on a 2003 PT Cruiser will alter the performance of the

[GTPT]

Dalite, what are you planning on going with this? Are you planning on starting an on line petition?
Phil

[Dalite]

Phil,

On the sugestion of another forum member, I went to www.petitiononline.com to see their format and requirements. What I have here is the basis for a petition to see how many would support a Class Action Suit. I don't know if it will fly or not. My concept here is that the petition would gather names and email addresses of those affected by the deletions that are safety oriented. It would also give a figure of merit of the number of folks interested in pursuing the Class Action Suit.

[GTPT]

I agree with the idea of starting a petition to see just how far we can go with this before attempting a suit. I disagree with including the horn or any other part, unless it was listed on the sticker at the time of delivery. That is another issue entirely. Also it will be extremely important to ensure that the petition is worded exactly right the first time, since there will be no going back once it's placed on line. I contemplated starting one last week but after considerable thought, felt that I may not be well versed enough.
Please keep me posted on your effort. I will also be of help to anyone that wishes to get involved in this endeavor.
Phil