is it me or does it seem like ???

[bobs turbo pt]

hello all, is it me or does it seem like there are alot of problems starting to happen to our gt turbo's?? codes popping up, steering noises, suspension noises, 5 speed trouble, etc, etc, etc, just the way it seems more and more posts about trouble with the cars [xx(]

[Kirby]

This is TOTALLY normal, and the number one reason that I subscribe to this web site.

Just like the line in Jurasic Park II when the promoter said "We have worked out all the problems and we won't make those mistakes again" and the scientist replied "NO WE WILL MAKE ALL NEW ONES!"

[flashbk2]

If you owned an '01 you'd know this is nothing compared to that ! You've got to realize that although the PT is beginning it's 4 th model year it 's the first year for this motor and tranny combo ( getrag 5 -speed/turbo ) . If you'd been around in 00-01 you'd have seen a much larger scale of gremlins/complaints. I'm not sayin DC is not without fault... but this is nothing compared to 3 years ago.

[sfhickey]

You guys have to realize, that at this place mostly people post when they have problems, not when everything works right....

nowhatumsayin?

[Sci-Fi]

Actually, the Getrag 5-Speed was used since 2002 on the export only Turbo Diesel PT's. I believe the Auto-Stick transmissions was available on all the export PT's since 2002. It surprises me, with Chrysler's extensive turbo engine experience, that these various problems are coming up. Perhaps the old adage of waiting a year before buying a new model is still valid.

[Jeff V]

I haven't had any problems but like Bob says, it seems like there are a LOT of posts about engine lights and codes everywhere I read. I have decided to use electrical tape to cover the engine light and odometer.

[Kirby]

Because Chrysler keeps modifying major parts (like the ECU for 2004), every year has its own particular problems.

[bobs turbo pt]

i bet more people are having trouble than people that aren't

[mvandale]

I'll take that bet-- with over 1,500 registered users here, and only a handful of 'glitches' posted, I am quite certain that the vast majority are virtually trouble-free. In addition, the PT Cruiser was recently ranked as one of the highest vehicles in initial quality by some consumer magazine (don't have it handy-but saw it last month). Maybe there are more 'turbo' issues arising, but I'm still not convinced.

[Dalite]

Many of the problems are PCM related, when the sensors report data that is/are out of the range of the look-up tables in the PCM Memory. That is one of the pitfalls of applying modifications to a Speed Density based fuel mapping system.

The look-up tables seem to be inadequate for even stock configurations, as there has been at least one case reported on the forums of a P1188 error on a bone stock setup.

There could also be problems in the TIP, BARO and MAP sensors, since they are mass produced, and may have a larger error variance thant the look-up table's acceptable tolerance.

One hint of this is the fact that the PCM is being redesigned for the 2004 model, and a 2004 model PCM is used on the Stage I Turbo upgrade. At a minimum, the PCM has probably received more memory (to allow for more expansive look-up tables) and faster processing speed (to make choices from a wider range of variables and look-up entries).

Performance, dependability and repeatibility are more a function of the PCM than they are of mechanical make-up. The power steering problems seem to be inherited from earlier models. The Chrome plating corrosion seems to be a new "feature" for 2003. The sensor errors, again, point to the PCM's inability to interpret a wide range of data, or respond to a wide range of driving conditions.

This is compounded by the "Musical Chairs" that DCX is playing with the PCM OBD standards, connections, commands and error codes.

This keeps the service departments from being able to concentrate on the problem at hand, aided by past experience.

It also places an extra burden on them in buying new gear yearly and having to receive new training on both gear and troubleshooting approaches.

If this is Chrysler's idea of a "better Mousetrap", it will be a good year for mice.