I've had it with my steal-ership...

[TripleJackInGA]

I think we should start our own database of crappy service departments and give the worste of the worste a '5-Turd' rating. Just have to be careful that you state facts and not opinions for liability reasons of course.

[bigdogdad]

Galeana Chrysler in Fort Myers, Florida. Rates a big "5 turds" Don't take the car there anymore. They can't do a oil change under three hours and they give you the bonus of a chip in the paint and now big oil hand prints all over the car. There is more but I agree that it would be fun to have a seperate area for this.

[Dalite]

Well, that was an absolute waste of time and blood pressure.... The Warranty department says that the dealership has to be able to verify the problem first. Any time spent that does not produce an error can be billed to the customer. The dealers are all independently owned and operated, and it is their decision on service billing procedure.

The representative did not take into account that the TSB narrowed the range down to specific build dates for the transmission type. The representative also didn't care that the TSB documents the problem to be a Random or intermittent one. I tried to get the a description of random in hours and minutes, and that apparently wasn't the way to go.

The overall attitude of their representative was civil, but far less than understanding from the onset of the conversation. I can only imagine the amount of stress they have to face each day; denying liability for documented problems at the command of their bosses.

The bottom line:

Expect the possibility of having to pay for any service time spent by your service department to duplicate the intermittent problem. Even though various service departments have been pursuing this problem for well over a year, and it was finally narrowed down to a hardware problem associated with PCMs made before a certain verifyable date.

The way that DCX has decided to pursue this problem is to ignore all the past time and effort spent to find the source of the problem and produce a TSB; in favor of keeping each service department as independent businessmen with the capability of billing time to re-invent the wheel.

Once again, the DCX policy goes to the extreme limits in defining the concept of paradox.

[TripleJackInGA]

Dalite - You're in Metro Atlanta, right? Which dealership was this ? I hear that the 5-Star down this way in Griffin is actually very good and easy to deal with, but we'll find out when I bring mine in.

[Dalite]

Trying a different approach now... Here is what is going out to DCX online customer assistance email address. I will post their response (if I receive any).

*********************************************

I am trying to get my dealership to repsond to a TSB:

TSB# 18-029-03
Date: August 8, 2003

SUBJECT: Slight Engine Mis-Fire Above 5200 rpm

OVERVIEW: This bulletin involves replacing the Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

MODELS: 2003 (PT) Chrysler PT Cruiser

NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles built prior to January 22, 2003 (MDH0122xx) equipped with a 2.4L Turbo engine and manual transmission or prior to March 18, 2003 (MDH 0318xx) for vehicles equipped with a 2.4L Turbo engine and automatic transmission.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION: Vehicle operator may describe a random or slight engine mis-fire when operating vehicle above 5200 rpm. There will be no DTC logged in the PCM. If there are DTC’s present additional diagnosis should be done to determine the problem. This condition is caused by a internal hardware issue in the PCM.

*************************

My VIN number and MDH confirm my car to fall in the range of the TSB. It is a Random problem; one that has been documented across the US and Canada for over a year now.

My dealer has a policy of charging for any service time that does not produce a failure.

Again I refer back to the TSB; the part about Random and no DTCs. The TSB states: If there ARE DTC’s present ADDITIONAL diagnosis should be done to determine the problem.

Is there any way for the customer to get resolution of this problem without having to pay for the dealer to duplicate findings that have resulted from a year's effort across the nation that have already resulted in this TSB?

[TripleJackInGA]

By the way, my car was built February 21st of this year and is an automatic, and I have experienced no high-RPM miss as of yet that I can notice. How does it manifest itself? Only under load? In Neutral? Only at WOT?

[Dalite]

quote:Originally posted by TripleJackInGA

Dalite - You're in Metro Atlanta, right? Which dealership was this ? I hear that the 5-Star down this way in Griffin is actually very good and easy to deal with, but we'll find out when I bring mine in.

TripleJack,

I am located in Brunswick, GA. We are on the eastern edge of the state, about 45 miles from the GA/FL line. I have the choice of the local dealer (who has sold the GT in quantity) and other dealers in the 50 to 60 mile range that have also shown sales on the GT. The local dealer is a 5 Star dealer (whatever that means).

[Dalite]

Mine has shown rough acceleration at 3/4 to WOT above 5000 RPM. You have a noticable smoothing out of engine after the stutter stops, and way before redline. It is like there was trash in the system that suddenly broke free. It cannot be reliably duplicated. Sometimes present after miles of driving, sometimes when first starting up. I live off of a highway with a 55 MPH speed limit. I warm the car up before leaving, as I may have to merge into traffic (2 lanes each direction) as soon as I leave the road to my house.

I want to get the problem resolved before going to Stage I; which I have had on order for over a month now. In a perfect world, I would get the dealership to install Stage I at the same time they are getting paid to do the TSB, and get a split labor fee on the Stage I that only charged for the injector part.

But we all know that ain't gonna happen...

[DTs_PTGT]

The easiest way for me to replicate the problem is to accelerate at WOT going uphill. This almost always produces the misfire in 2nd gear. At 5000 RPM or so you will be going between 50 and 70 MPH so I suggest using a highway onramp.

Dalite,

The phone navigation I used (IIRC) was 2, then 5 (other problems), then 3 to enter my home phone number. That's how I got to the lady I spoke with. She was very helpful, and took the time to call me back as well as speaking with the service manager at my dealer and faxing the TSB to them.

[Dalite]

Time for an update...

I went back in to the dealership this afternoon, and asked to speak with the Service Manager this time. He and I have had dialog in the past, and I have always shared what I have been hearing in customer land with him; many times on social visits made specifically to share info.

He took the time to look up the TSBs crossed to my VIN, and did not see it listed. However, he did not show any doubt about the copy I printed out from the forum. After seeing him physically log in to see if it was on his system, I told him no explanation was necessary, as that seemed to be the situation with most of the dealers. I told him that I was more concerned with their policy of charging for non-productive service time when trying to isolate an intermittent problem; such as the misfire one. He explained to me that he was aware of the elusive problem, and had been for some time. He further showed some relief that the TSB would address the problem with a cure (the PCM replacement). He told me not to be concerned about any undue cost to myself, and he would contact me as soon as he got verification. I assured him that I saw no problem with waiting until then and that I was very much relieved by the reassurance from him about a straight forward procedure that eliminated the requirement for the customer to pay for diagnostic time that did not induce a failure.

All in all, it was a very productive trip to the service department. I learned to approach the Service Department manager with any questions, not always assume the worst, and be willing to share my concerns over a service procedure BEFORE it is done to lessen the possibility of a misunderstanding at the time the repair ticket is presented.

I feel much better about the local service department after our little get together this morning, I admit to jumping the gun by fearing the worst case after my previous visit concerning this TSB. I also had him check a previous TSB for validity (one that their service writer had referred me to a shop person that handled the filing of TSBs, and who had told me it was non-existent), and he did confirm it as an available TSB for my VIN. Since we will be resolving both with the updated PCM, I didn't pursue it any further. Again, another reason to check with the Service Manager prior to getting upset; a lesson that I won't soon forget.

If there is any lesson to be gained from this experience it would be the one of communication, as well as addressing your concerns to the one who oversees the shop. I made the mistake of being overly critical of the entire operation due to the way the Service Writer explained it, without giving the Service Manager the chance to explain how he interpreted the policy.

I made a mistake in my over reacting, and I will be the first to admit it. I feel fortunate to be able to re-establish (and hopefully) maintain a favorable dialog with the local Service Manager and I will value this as a resource to preserve.