180 HP Turbo Engine

[Stephen R.]

The two things we are dealing with here is WHAT & WHY:

WHAT: Maybe Hot Rod magazine can do another teardown like they recently did. Seeing hardware published would certainly help calm the confusion. Another choice might be www.bstockum.com [:I]

WHY: We'll never really know, but I suspect marketing.

As I implied previously, I think the 180 is going to be viewed as an economical choice rather than the _______________ choice.

I think what Kirby is saying is that there is a general trend in society today to shy away from understanding a product's content. Here's an example: Stainless appliances. It's not stainless; it's only stainless "clad". It's all about simplistic initial impressions. Mom always said: "Don't be so superficial." OK Mom.

Fuzzy logic is really getting a grip. Q: Why do Ford transmissions blow after 60,000? A: Because that's as long as they last(!??!) Whaaaaa?[xx(] Is this acceptable logic?

An automoblie is a complicated POS to own. It is better to ask questions containing technical merit or as to why the PT has gone unchanged (except Turbo) for the past four years! It has only been re-clad. I digress...

Anyway, I'm going to keep open mind for people who want to critique this car and be more guarded for those who critique the critiquer. [8)]

[GTSteve]

Has the original question been answered?

If so, I'm in favor of killing this thread before we all "digress."

[Kirby]

GT,
I think that Ethanol 1 had a question with real merit:
Is the new 180hp engine esentially the 215 or 220 hp turbo we have come to know and love?
WHY?
He is an owner.

Smart Mopar Performance people would let him know if the Stage I upgrade kit was a viable choice.
Our resident engine development engineer from Chrysler let the cat out of the bag by saying:

The 180bhp Turbo (Special Value Turbo internally) is essentially the same as the GT, but calibrated to run on 87 Pump octane. You don't get the upgraded brakes, wheels or suspension - and you're stuck with an automatic trans. It's a good intermediate step from the base engine to the GT - if you like automatics.

Interpretation: Same engine de-tuned, cheaper rolling chassis.[8)]

I think that this was a fair question to ask, and good information for anyone looking to get that second PT, or a friend that would want information (definitely not provided by Chrysler).[:X]

[GTSteve]

Yes, a VERY good question.

AND, a very good answer. Thank you Kirby.

Other forums are asking the same question and they are getting the same answer.

[Ethan01]

Most of my cars have been sports cars TR3B, Austin Healys, RX7s 626 Turbo and 1 2002 Base Model PT which I traded for my 2004 Limited Turbo. I have not smoked the tires as of yet as the engine is not broke-in. The car a lot more spunk thank the 2002 that I had. The big thing on why I got the Turbo the PRICE. $2500 off the sticker and the COLOR. The GTs on hand had wild colors. If you want to run fast on the roads today you have to blend with the traffic. Flashly cars get you more trouble from the law. So I will say so far the 180HP will do real fine on I40 and I77.

[3BarBoost]

Wow, gone for a week and has this conversation gotten clearer or muddier?

Only thing I want to add at this time is something about knock sensors. Knock sensors work by "listening" to vibrations in the block caused by abnormal combustion. This is a fairly complicated and imprecise process wherein the controller does some fancy DSP to figure out the level of knock and how much spark to remove - usually erring on the safe side. As spark is removed, boost and fuelling has to be adjusted to keep everything in the exhaust right at the correct temperature. Knock is classified as "abnormal" operation and therefore is outside of the calibration window where everything is tightly controlled - read that as less efficient. You can run a GT Turbo with 87 pump octane, but it will make less power and torque than a SVT, with poorer fuel economy - because it wasn't calibrated to run on that fuel.

A SVT is a lower cost vehicle to purchase and to own, and it will happily run all day long on cheaper fuel - getting excellent economy all the time. We expect to sell twice as many SVTs as GTs, because it scoots for not much more money than the base engine.

[MEXICANPT]

SVT's?? Isn't that Ford's Specialty Vehicle Team?

[FRM3]

3BarBoost:

Thanks for your usual competent information. Reading between the lines, could one assume that if an SVT owner were to always use high ocatne fuel and install the Stage 1 Kit with its revised PCM he might have similar results to the High Output GT ?

[Herschel]

Say 3BarBoost, do you have an e-mail or
contact information? H. e-mail:jessiebell@voyager.net

[Kirby]

S - Special
V - Value
T - Turbo

Don't you just love the wonderful world of alliterations? Everything seems like an inside job. It has ever been in large companies!

Chrysler was right on with lowering the entry fee (just wish the stronger manual trans was available - would probably get slightly better gas mileage too.)