This could effect all of us...

[Kirby]

This brings up the uneven playing field, we have laws that say we are protected, yet which of us can afford to leave our PT at the local dealership for 2 or 3 months while we battle it out with Chrysler. I know that in California there will be NO punitive damages awarded after the long fight, and if it occurrs again, another battle!

I once had a Fiat X-19 that I allowed only the dealership to service. One day driving home from a $200 oil change, the engine caught on fire (seems the trained mechanic forgot to put the cap on the oil filler). The result was that I had to pay 1/2 the cost....the dealer said that by using synthetic oil that I had made the engine MORE fire prone. I drove that little red car straight to the Porsche dealership, dumped it, and never set foot in the Fiat dealership again! (They went out of busines a year later!)

If Chrysler won't help you, dump it, and forget trying to change the world.

Just for your information -

The fancy Head Gasket: cost the dealership $80
Machining the head: $150
Various other belts & Gaskets: $150
Labor on a Head Gasket: 1 Day

Net: $1,600 for labor (not a bad day's pay)

(Usually at the carnival when a real sucker comes along the barker will give the mark a gift, so that the next guy knows he has a sucker on the line.)
Did they give you a little key chain along with the service?

[Pipes]

COP TZER, I had replied to the posting that is now located in the steam room and that is where it now resides ! Take a boo, if you wish.
Be rational......but be loud !! Hang in there.....Pipes. [?]

[macster]

quote:Originally posted by COP TZER

Well guys here's an update... First off, 3BAR thank you for showing some integrity as i know we've disagreed on some points previously, but your help is much appreciated.

I bit the bullet and paid for the repairs, simply because a rental is too much money over a period more than 3-4 days. Came out to just over $2000 CDN!!! I plan on taking up the issue with chrysler and upon getting it rectified trying to work out some sort of re-embursement for the cost. When i went in to pick up my car, i had a chat with some guys from service (mechanics) about my situation and they un-officially agreed with me. Due to the fact that the Turbo has CONSTANT OIL PRESSURE DESPITE ENGINE RPM! This directly contradicts the reasoning supplied to me earlier...and so the rabbit hole gets deeper....rest assured that this is NOT over!!!!

COP TZER

Good move, although it would hurt, thats exactly what I would do.

good luck

macster

[3BarBoost]

Hershel,
First things first - legally your dealer should not install any parts that affect your emissions system that make it non-compliant. If they do do so, they expose themselves to potential lawsuits from the government. Because we have not certified any of the Staged kits as compliant (due to something called OBD and certain P-codes not appearing, not because they can't pass a sniffer), you the customer have to install them to avoid potential legal trouble with the EPA.

The only thing I can promise is that I will try to get anyone a fair shake when it comes to Mopar Performance Parts if something goes wrong. I will not rule out the possibility of any of you being at fault if you attempt to make the engine operate outside the parameters we think are safe. Stage 1 and 2 both involve the absolute minimum of mechanical skill necessary, very unlike the old Super 60 kit which involved tearing into the engine.

Finally, in COP TZER's case (turbo bearing failure?) - should any of you be handy with a wrench, the entire exhaust manifold/turbo assembly is like $400 from your dealer. The turbo itself can be swapped in a couple of hours, not really that hard because the manifold can be left on the engine. I've done it in less than twenty minutes.

[Punch]

too bad they don't make an aftermarket upgrade turbo, this would be the perfect time to fit it in : )

[COP TZER]

Actually FYI....there is an aftermarket upgrade available. It's made by Hahn Racecraft and includes a new manifold, downpipe and turbo. You can fit any mitsubishi turbo on it. the website is www.hahnracecraft.com , i'm sure this will sell like hot cakes. I didn't want to go that route beacuse by replacing it with another stock system, i'm back in warranty. If i would go aftermarket i can say goodbye to any sort of engine warranty etc.

[Kirby]

Note from 3 Bar:
Finally, in COP TZER's case (turbo bearing failure?) - should any of you be handy with a wrench, the entire exhaust manifold/turbo assembly is like $400 from your dealer. The turbo itself can be swapped in a couple of hours, not really that hard because the manifold can be left on the engine. I've done it in less than twenty minutes.

I know well that if you can turn a wrench you can save a lot of headaches, but the ones that can't are up for grabs when anything goes wrong. I sincerely appreciate all that you are trying to do, but it is a team effort at Chrysler, and some of the team members don't want to play fair!

[Big Al]

quote:Originally posted by 3BarBoost

Because we have not certified any of the Staged kits as compliant (due to something called OBD and certain P-codes not appearing, not because they can't pass a sniffer), you the customer have to install them to avoid potential legal trouble with the EPA.

So any particular reason why the staged kits cannot be OBD compliant and handle these certain P-codes? I am not sure if I understand the technical limitation here.

[Kirby]

Please correct me, but this topic has come up before and has never been fully explained. I think that the last time it was left that the compliance issues were tied into warranty issues, that means $$$$$, and that is the death of any project.

I think that my old thick skull has finally gotten the point:

Chrysler will NEVER warrant performance parts.
(Why would Chrysler spend money on compliances when they are NOT going to warrant anything anyway?)

Chrysler does not have the ability to control the dealer network on the warranty issue, so it truly is dependant on your specific dealer as to how your original warranty will be handled.

Despite the obvious connection, DO NOT be confused and think that Mopar Performance is Chrysler.

[3BarBoost]

TurboG and I were actually discussing this today. The statement that aftermarket parts automatically void your original equipment warranty is totally wrong and untrue. I think if I searched through the posts, someone found the legal precedence with regard to aftermarket parts having to be proven to be the fault of failure (it talks about it in your owners manual as well). The only thing you cannot get a warrantee coverage for is if you race your car (on a race track) and blow it up.

The emissions compliance thing is another story. The letter of the law is that until we get an EO number for the Stage Kits (meaning not just sniffer but On Board Diagnostics fully functional - both OBDI and OBDII) they cannot be installed by a dealer. The EO carries huge cost with it (and why it wasn't done), especially since certain OBD functions were shut off to make it easier for you to increase performance if you so desire.