E85

[vtmdsm27]

I saw in another post in this forum that a couple of people recommended running a tankful of E85 to clean up an engine. They gave reasons, but I am not sure of their evidence.

Does anyone else have experience with this idea? And if the idea is viable, would it be a major problem running E85 in a turbo lite?

[CREWZIN]

From Best Answers on the Internet:

E85 is very corrosive. Engines that can tolerate it have their fuel system made of material that can tolerate alcohol without corroding. Some car makers even warn against using E85. It's a very poor fuel anyway, with low energy content and much more is needed to do the same work real gasoline would do. GM and Ford made their effort to adapt to it and promote it, but some of the damage done was to drive up food costs.

So, do you really want to try it?

[Chromenut]

I've heard about it, people stating that E85 is harmful to your turbo engines, and have spoken to quite a few builders who stated that they stay far, far away from ethanol. Now not long ago I researched it, and now I will not even fill up at a gas station carrying E85 fuel!

Originally Posted by SmarterFuelFuture.org

Vehicles & Small Engines

Because higher ethanol fuel blends (like E15 and E85) have less energy content than regular gasoline, they deliver lower fuel economy and cost consumers more money at the pump. They are also corrosive when used in most automobiles, meaning they can harm engines and compromise vehicle performance. Even so, our government is mandating increased ethanol in our fuels, putting biofuels mandates ahead of the safety and convenience of American consumers and manufacturers.

Decreased Fuel Economy

Ethanol contains 33 percent less energy per gallon than gasoline, and vehicles fueled with ethanol cover fewer miles per gallon than those running on conventional gasoline. The higher the ethanol blend, the lower the fuel economy, meaning consumers must fill up at the pump more frequently.

Damage to Vehicles and Performance

Beyond the damage to your wallet, ethanol can also damage vehicles and affect performance—corroding metals, causing rubber to swell and causing engines to break down more quickly. Some ethanol blends should not be used on certain engines and motors at all. EPA’s E15 waiver covers only 2001 and newer motor vehicles. E15 is not appropriate for heavy-duty vehicles or vehicles built before 2000, nor is it fit for boats and small motors, including those in lawnmowers and chainsaws.

All that being said - screw the government, I'm not ever using ethanol!

[UptownSport]

First, I'd bet you engine is just fine, there's no reason to clean it.

I wouldn't suggest running E-85 in a stock PT, but if you do, it wouldn't cause any permanent harm, just a code and poor performance.

We've had E-85 in our Neons since 2007. Mine has 285,000 on it, original engine (pistons, head, rods, crank, etc) and about 100 runs on 1/4 drag strip. All OE fuel system (except injectors)

Simply put, E-85 is an exceptional fuel. It has very high octane, so you can literally run radical compression ratios (or boost) on pump gas.
As quoted, it has low BTU, you must use more (hence the check engine light).

It's used as a mix in gasoline because it has a molecule of oxygen, so it's an oxygenate. It replaces MBTE which was toxic or something bad.
Because of the extra O2 molecule, alcohol will produce more power than gasoline (like low single digits %)

Methanol (wood alcohol) is highly corrosive. They had M-85 in the 90's and needed stainless lines.

EVERYONE is familiar with Ethanol- You can drink it!!!

[2step]

I agree with Uptown and I'll also add that in order to run E85 you will need to retune for it and probably change to larger injectors. The air/fuel ratio for ethanol is much richer than gas so if the changes aren't made you will be super lean, no question. So called Flex Fuel cars have the injectors and dual fuel programing so they can switch back a forth as needed.

The problem with quotes from the internet is thay are either right or they are wrong. Anybody with an ax to grind can put anything they want on the internet. In this case I think they are a bit exagerated and a lot out of date. If you drive an old classic car, you for sure want to stay away from ethanol because of all the scary reasons listed. But any modern car with a modern fuel system is engineered to handle ethanol.

Here in Texas, the land of refineries and the headwaters of fuel pipelines, all we see at the pumps is "Contains Up To 10% Ethanol" gas. We have a choice while filling up at the pump. We can get angry at all the senators and congressmen from farm states and imagine their reasons for mandating ethanol...... or we can think happy thoughts and think about 1 out of every 10 Arab oil wells being capped, 1 out of every 10 oil tankers tied up at the dock (ships are one of the grossest polluters on the planet) and how much less dependant our country is to the whims of foreign powers. In other words, it's a stratigic thing. It's what knocked the pins out from under the oil cartels who have caused trumped up shortages in the past (some of you are probably too young to remember).

My Cruiser has a 50 trim, Big Turbo, 400hp plus and I don't sweat the 10 % or so ethanol in my fuel. A friend of mine here who also has a 50 trim, has his Cruiser tuned to run a 50/50 mix of ethanol/gas which he blends from 2 pumps at each fill to get that blend. Yes his mileage is less but he does it to be the biggest bear in the woods, not mileage.

One final note: If there is ethanol in your fuel, you never have to worry about water in your gas tank or frozen fuel lines in winter because ethanol has an affinity for water, will absorb it and keep it in suspension in the gas mix. Water, moisture, condensation in fuel is constantly being carried away and can't build up.

There are better "cleaners" already in fuel than alcohol so I doubt that a tank of E85 could do any good and there is a good chance of damage from the lean condition you would have. You did the right thing by asking, though. Always check out what you read, even here on the Links. I hope I didn't step on anyones foreskin. I'm just trying to bring a little balance to the topic.

[cruserdad1976]

on my trip i stoped at a station and did not pay any attention to what i was doing i put in E 85 in the gold wing place of Premium
all i can say was i got half the MPG and it was like pushing a load UPHILL for the next 100 miles it ran ok just no get up and go i finally got about 150 miles on bike and filled up with the right stuff it was almost like a INSTANT burst of power
id hate to see what it did in a na PT I bet the mpg would be single digits

[UptownSport]

Originally Posted by 2step

One final note: If there is ethanol in your fuel, you never have to worry about water in your gas tank or frozen fuel lines in winter because ethanol has an affinity for water, will absorb it and keep it in suspension in the gas mix. Water, moisture, condensation in fuel is constantly being carried away and can't build up.

YES! That's why one has a hangover after drinking, ethanol sucks all the water out of your body!

[Chromenut]

If you use injector cleaner or carb cleaner as a fuel additive, check it out, many have ethanol in them. I do run that through mine quite often and yes, it has ethanol in the one's I use, helps reduce water in your fuel system too, but not enough to do any permanent damage.