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Issues with 2004 GT

 
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Old 20 May 2013, 11:24 am
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
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Unhappy Issues with 2004 GT

Okay, some of you may know we bought a 2004 GT a few weeks ago to replace the 2003 N/A Limited that I totaled last month. Well, this thing is really starting to concern me.

I posted earlier about oil leaks. When we got this car checked out before we bought it, we were told, among other things, that there was an oil leak. I saw the evidence myself, but it was impossible to tell how much was actually leaking. Once we got it home, I could tell it was quite a bit.

The mechanic who works for the dealer (a used car lot) we got the car from has pulled the oil cooler (another story), changed the oil filter and adapter gasket, and changed the camshaft position sensor seal. It looked like an improvement at first, but a few days later, about the same amount of oil was leaking onto my driveway overnight.

He also completely removed the intake manifold (both halves) to check to see if there was any leakage at the head gasket or anywhere else up top that might have been hidden with it in place. He cleaned the engine and replaced the intake manifold, using new gaskets. Then he topped off the coolant and engine oil and sent me on my way. That was 10 days ago.

I was there watching (and helping) as he removed the intake manifold and noticed when he first pulled off the top half that clean engine oil dripped out of one or more of the ports - probably less than a tablespoon - as he separated it from the bottom half. I asked him about this and he said it was normal for the turbo.

QUESTION 1: Is this true, or should I be concerned?

I had asked him to change the oil pan gasket but he is convinced that it is not leaking.

QUESTION 2: How likely is it for the oil pan gasket to leak? There is no pressure there, so it would be a pretty slow leak, if any, right?

On Saturday, I checked the engine oil level and THE STICK WAS DRY! I had to add two quarts of oil to get it back to mid-range on the dipstick. I don't know for sure what the level was after he topped up my oil 10 days ago, but we are probably talking about a quart in a week, maybe more! I don't think all of that is leaking on my driveway.

Note that there is no apparent oil in the coolant nor coolant in the oil, and there is no blue smoke at the tailpipe at any time.

NEXT ISSUE: The car does put out a large puff of white "smoke" when it is first started from cold that dissipates quickly. It looks like water vapor to me, nothing more. If started when the engine is warm, there is no smoke.

QUESTION 3: Is this normal, or should I be concerned?

Now, for the latest. I noticed a few days ago a place on my driveway that looks like black droplets were blown out of the exhaust while the car was sitting there, stationary. Saturday, I had the car further down the driveway and noticed it was doing this on acceleration. My neighbor put his hand in front of the pipe before I gave it some gas and a whole bunch of wet black stuff covered it - it was mostly water with some sort of black stuff in it. His hand cleaned up easily with regular hand soap so that confirms that it was probably water based.

Note that the engine coolant level (both under the cap and in the overflow bottle) has not changed since we topped it up 10 days ago after the intake manifold was removed. Also, the humidity here in Tucson is 20-25% right now.

QUESTION 4: Where is all the water vapor coming from?

The car had been sitting for a while before I took it out for a test drive. I put a bottle of Heet in a full tank of gas Saturday, thinking there might be water in the tank, and we will probably run that out over the next couple of weeks.

TIA for any and all comments/recommendations.
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2003 PT Limited ~ Inferno Red / Taupe ~ 79610mi * RIP *
2004 PT GT ~ Inferno Red / Dark Slate ~ 132000mi

Last edited by eegorr; 20 May 2013 at 02:26 pm.
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Old 21 May 2013, 06:41 pm
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VNT VNT is offline
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

Oh boy

If it was leaking a qt a week you would notice. you would have a good size puddle. Park it and put some card board under the car and see where any oil drips, then look above that area.

How is the PCV?

I would bring it to another mechanic and have them do a leak down test.

If it fails bring the car back, and I hope you have a warranty to return it.

A qt a week is a lot of oil, if it was on the ground you would know. If it was from the valve cover on the rear it would stink.

You could also have an issue with the turbo. take the hoses off and check the end play on the compressor side, if there is any slop you probably have a bad bearing catridge.

BTW, did you do the oil fill cap test?
Any turbo I buy, simply remove the cap, if there is varnish under the cap and the filler hole in the valve cover, I assume the oil hasnt been changed enough and I keep looking.
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Last edited by VNT; 21 May 2013 at 06:45 pm.
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Old 26 May 2013, 12:07 am
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

I'm going to run a compression check tomorrow. Can someone tell me how to disable the fuel injectors for the duration? Is there a fuse I can pull to do this?
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Old 26 May 2013, 05:26 am
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

In the PDC (Power Distribution Center) that's in the engine compartment, there's the No#13 fuse and that controls the "Auto Shut Down, Fuel Pump".
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Old 27 May 2013, 04:43 pm
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
In the PDC (Power Distribution Center) that's in the engine compartment, there's the No#13 fuse and that controls the "Auto Shut Down, Fuel Pump".
Just finished my compression test.

I pulled the FP/ASD 20A fuse - not sure how to count, but it is the 8th fuse from the driver's side in the row closest to the firewall - this prevented the engine from turning over at all! I found the ASD relay in the diagram on the inside of the PDC lid (saw this mentioned in the service manual) and pulled that instead - the engine turned over just fine.

My results: 165/165, 160/160, 165/160, 160,160 (cyls 1-4, from left - two readings each, 4-5 engine rpm per reading)

Then I went back and re-tested cylinder 1 - this time I got 160/160 so I'm guessing that the small reduction from left to right was due to the engine cooling off.

Compression looks good to me, but when I was removing the spark plugs I noticed that there was oil down inside the spark plug bore (outside the cylinder). Does this mean that the valve cover gasket is leaking?

The spark plugs are Champion RE14MCC5 - they are definitely not new. I'm going to go ahead and replace them now and probably again later, after resolving all of the issues with this engine. Is there a better plug for this application that doesn't cost $10 apiece?
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Old 27 May 2013, 05:39 pm
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

There are 4 seals on the valve cover at the plug holes. You might need to replace them. Valve cover needs to be removed. BTW, compression test was perfect!

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Old 27 May 2013, 06:52 pm
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
There are 4 seals on the valve cover at the plug holes. You might need to replace them. Valve cover needs to be removed. BTW, compression test was perfect!
Thanks for your quick reply, Crewzin!

I'm pretty happy with the results myself! I was ready to see some lower numbers, especially since the compression tester I got was a $30 Actron CP7827 from Sears.

Not bad for 92,000 miles. Seems to me that if all four cylinders are that high and close together a leak down test isn't really necessary, right?

Valve cover gasket and plug well seals are on the list! Now, is there some way that oil could find its way past the threads on the spark plug and into the combustion chamber? If not, why don't the wells simply fill up with oil?

The last mechanic I took the car to said he doesn't work on turbos but that one or more of the oil seals might be out in our turbo and we could be losing oil that way. Does that make sense?

Thanks again...
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Old 27 May 2013, 07:25 pm
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

I''m not really into Turbo's myself and hopefully some of the guys up on them are/will read this and give you an answer.
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Old 27 May 2013, 09:32 pm
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by CREWZIN View Post
I''m not really into Turbo's myself and hopefully some of the guys up on them are/will read this and give you an answer.
A bad pcv valve can cause the car to suck oil into the intake . sometimes to the point of smoking on these turbos.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps29bb7b2e.jpg

Or talk to NitroPT and get one of these to take over the function of the pcv. I does a better job than a new one and eliminates boost loose through the pcv. You can just leave the old one in place. It's called a boost lock valve.
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Last edited by Busted_PT; 27 May 2013 at 09:38 pm.
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Old 27 May 2013, 10:49 pm
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Default Re: Issues with 2004 GT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Busted_PT View Post
A bad pcv valve can cause the car to suck oil into the intake . sometimes to the point of smoking on these turbos.
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps29bb7b2e.jpg

Or talk to NitroPT and get one of these to take over the function of the pcv. I does a better job than a new one and eliminates boost loose through the pcv. You can just leave the old one in place. It's called a boost lock valve.
Well, looks like the PCV valve might have been the root of my problem. While you guys were posting this useful info, I was trying my own experiment with pulling the PCV valve completely out of the picture. I hate to jump to conclusions so soon, but the smoking appears to be gone now and the car is running better, too. I'll keep a close eye on the smoking and oil consumption over the next few weeks, but I feel pretty good about it.

See my complete post here for details.

UPDATE - 5/28 @ 8:30A: NO SMOKE on first startup this morning - that is when we have seen smoking consistently (on cold start), but recently it has been smoking to some degree pretty much whenever the car was running. I topped up the oil and will keep track of the level every morning for the next week or two.

BTW, I am thinking about asking the dealer to go in and find the missing parts and get Chrysler to pay for it! I wasn't able to find any posts here where someone who had this problem actually found the parts and retrieved them from under the valve cover.
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2003 PT Limited ~ Inferno Red / Taupe ~ 79610mi * RIP *
2004 PT GT ~ Inferno Red / Dark Slate ~ 132000mi

Last edited by eegorr; 28 May 2013 at 11:04 am.
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