What more can I do to increase HP?

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by 98 Neon Driver

Not reliable, but it was repeated 3 times, how do you explain that one?

AC

Easy....the test was done in second gear, which is not how you are supposed to run a dyno test. The test was run with the A/C on, giving me an indication that the guy running the dyno really didn't know what he was doing. The test was run without any other diagnostic equipment, even something as simple as a boost gauge might have given an indication where the extra power was coming from.

So much could have happened with the adding of the pipe that isn't related to the pipe itself, but none of that was really looked at. For instance, the boost might have spiked with the new pipe...that means the HP increase didn't come from the pipe itself, but from an increased boost pressure, which may or may not be maintainable on the street.

If you want to buy the pipe with its magical addition of 30HP, go right ahead. Anyone who knows anythign about turbo cars will tell you that unless the pipe went from 1" to 3", you WILL NOT see a 30HP gain attributable to piping. You won't gain 30HP by putting on a free flow exhaust, and that is much more of a restriction on the engine than the damn upper intercooler pipes.

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

Easy....the test was done in second gear, which is not how you are supposed to run a dyno test. The test was run with the A/C on, giving me an indication that the guy running the dyno really didn't know what he was doing. The test was run without any other diagnostic equipment, even something as simple as a boost gauge might have given an indication where the extra power was coming from.

So much could have happened with the adding of the pipe that isn't related to the pipe itself, but none of that was really looked at. For instance, the boost might have spiked with the new pipe...that means the HP increase didn't come from the pipe itself, but from an increased boost pressure, which may or may not be maintainable on the street.

If you want to buy the pipe with its magical addition of 30HP, go right ahead. Anyone who knows anythign about turbo cars will tell you that unless the pipe went from 1" to 3", you WILL NOT see a 30HP gain attributable to piping. You won't gain 30HP by putting on a free flow exhaust, and that is much more of a restriction on the engine than the damn upper intercooler pipes.

Well, I just looked in tthrift's post here

http://ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7238

And I asked if his boost readings were any diffferent now thathe has the new pipe on his car. His answer? YES. They are dramatically different. So the increase in HP is NOT from the pipes, it's from an increase in boost, which the pipes somehow facilitate (not sure exactly why that happens yet). This increase is not additive with other mods that also allow boost to increase.

[Ian-PT-GT]

That is exacly why you want the pipe...

It is solid, no balooning, higher boost at the same Compressor RPM = better turbo eficiency.

If you increase the boost, it will go into the engine, not the pipe... this all equates to HP increase. How many??? It will vary on what you have in your car. All cars will make different HP numbers. no two engines are alike.

Horsepower is made with air volume, not boost... Bost is the transport medium of volume. for every pound of air volume you get in an engine you get 10HP increase. if the kit is making 30HP increase, it means it is geting 3 three aditional pounds of air into the engine... how is this???

look at the huge rubber pipe, if it baloons just an 1/8", there is a lot of air volume lost in the pipe.

Maybe the Turbo has to produce 17PSI at the compressor exaust to make 14 PSI at the throttle body. this would explain the boost increase once the metal tube is installed.

If this is the case, well the HP increase is coming indeed from the "Damn Pipe".

Is like the K&N filter... The filter doesn't produce HP... It makes the engine breathe better tus producing HP.

The exhaust pipe doesn't produce HP... it makes the engine get rid of the gases better thus producing HP.

the idea here is all Combinations.

Ian

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by Ian-PT-GT

That is exacly why you want the pipe...

It is solid, no balooning, higher boost at the same Compressor RPM = better turbo eficiency.

On this we agree. Hard ippes are better overall for your system.

quote:
If you increase the boost, it will go into the engine, not the pipe... this all equates to HP increase. How many??? It will vary on what you have in your car. All cars will make different HP numbers. no two engines are alike.

Horsepower is made with air volume, not boost... Bost is the transport medium of volume. for every pound of air volume you get in an engine you get 10HP increase. if the kit is making 30HP increase, it means it is geting 3 three aditional pounds of air into the engine... how is this???

You are correct, air mass is what translates into horsepower. Boost is merely a measure of the pressure that air mass exerts on its container. I am not sure you're completely understanding my point, though....the horsepower is coming from an increase in mass airflow which WILL NOT be aditive with other power modes that also supposedly increase mass airflow. If you have a 15PSI WGA, but you are already getting 15PSI, it won't help you at all. The pipe itself is not adding the horsepower, it it merely a medium which somehow is allowing more boost (aka mass airflow) into the engine.

quote:
look at the huge rubber pipe, if it baloons just an 1/8", there is a lot of air volume lost in the pipe.

Actually, it isn't that much air volume. And by this logic, you should put in narrower pipes rather than large ones to increase the air volume getting to the engine, and you know that can't be right.

Ballooning of the pipe will cause a decreased boost response, but it won't cause THAT much of a pressure loss. Not 30HP worth.

quote:
Maybe the Turbo has to produce 17PSI at the compressor exaust to make 14 PSI at the throttle body. this would explain the boost increase once the metal tube is installed.

If this is the case, well the HP increase is coming indeed from the "Damn Pipe".

No, the increase is not coming from the pipe, but what the pipe allows the turbo to do, which is mantain higher boost (if this is the case) at a better efficiency. Which means you better hope the heck your fuel system can handle that much boost, and you better not try to add too much more.

quote:
Is like the K&N filter... The filter doesn't produce HP... It makes the engine breathe better tus producing HP.

The exhaust pipe doesn't produce HP... it makes the engine get rid of the gases better thus producing HP.

the idea here is all Combinations.

Of course the filters and exhausts don't produce HP. Otherwise we would all be driving our filters and exhausts around the parking lot. They remove restrictions on the engine which allow it to make more HP. But they are also share a dependency on the boost....the more boost you add, the more HP you will gain from the exhaust and the intake, because the reduction in restrictions continues to apply. However, with the UIC pipe, you don't continue to make proportional hor

[Ian-PT-GT]

I understant perfectly your point since your first post.

All I am saying is the a Hard pipe is better than a soft pipe...

is it worth 30HP??? I don't know[:I]

I think the word that rubs you wrong is "Produces".

Let's use the word "Liberates". I like this one better and it goes more in tune with what you are saying. The pipe doesn't produce HP. It liberates hidden HP. to produce HP you have to add something to the mix. to liberate power you have to remove bottle necks and drags.

I know perfectly what the PCMs do on these cars (I have been modding them since 1986). That is why I haven't used any concrete HP numbers. I have tested the car with an intake mod with the PCM in the learning mode (removed the negative terminal for a few minutes) and they are powerful but after a few days, the PCM is compensating for it, making the car work again within parameters in it's Maps.

My car works constantly at 15-16 PSI all the time with just stage 1 and some minor mods to include exaust mods.

I want the pipe not because of the claimed 30 HP increase. But because it will lower the compressor RPMs resulting in lower turbo temps and in turn, longer compressor life, cooler charge making the Intercooler work better and thus producing HP. It is adding cooler/denser air into the engine.

Most Turbo compressor maps have the peak efficiency island at the 15 PSI mark (most of the time is at a 77%) if you can keep the 15 PSI with lower RPM, you will improve efficiency on the turbo and make the work on the IC a lot easier...

[crazyjoe]

I think we're agreed then. Hard is better than soft (heh). Helps liberate HP but probably not 30HP worth. Is better for the engine.

[Ian-PT-GT]

quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

I think we're agreed then. Hard is better than soft (heh). Helps liberate HP but probably not 30HP worth. Is better for the engine.

Yes, we are and it only took us over 15 posts to agree on the same thing we agreed from the start [^]

Ian