Wait till you see this........

[turbomangt]

I stopped by today to check out my car while it was in the custom shop. He is moving the battery to the rear of the car (like a hot rod) so he has room to run a tube for the cold air intake. Plus the battery looks ugly when you are showing off under the hood. I may be the first guy here to ceramic coat some of my engine components as well. Have not heard of anyone doing that. He saw my BTG brace bar and said it is made of too soft a metal, so he is making a solid one as a bonus. also putting in S1. While he is doing all that my hood is at the air brush artist. That will be a suprise. I'm spending my kids inheritance. good timing doing this work, my warrenty just ran out. Gary estimated time to finish , 2 more weeks. pics to follow.

[Gary04GT]

quote:Originally posted by turbomangt
...While he is doing all that my hood is at the air brush artist. That will be a suprise....pics to follow.

Congrats! [^] Looks like your wife raised your allowance. [8D]

If I guess the "surprise" being air brushed on the hood will you fly out to Seattle and detail my car??? Let me see...I think you are having a picture of a HEMI engine painted on your hood???????????? Am I right!??? [8]

[purple04]

Okay, I skipped the first one without comment, but you said it twice, sooo... I hope the strengthened brace doesn't snap the strut bolts. The fact that these are bolt-ons and use short, weak fasteners is why I haven't stepped up yet. Putting a stronger bar in will stress the weak link (the bolts) even more. Please keep us informed when you get it back. And I guess it's a Oakley Hemi graphic too, only sideways!

[Gary04GT]

quote:Originally posted by purple04
...I hope the strengthened brace doesn't snap the strut bolts. The fact that these are bolt-ons and use short, weak fasteners is why I haven't stepped up yet. Putting a stronger bar in will stress the weak link (the bolts) even more...

Good point. After receiving my BTG Strut Tower Brace from PT-Turning I noticed some flex in the bar and wondered if I received the wrong part. [:I] So, I spoke with Maier Shadi (co-owner of the company) about this. He informed me that the brace is designed to "flex" for both the GT and other models. Just something to consider, turbomangt. Remember those lowering springs [B)] that were installed on your GT a few months ago??? Did you like them??? [:0] [B)] Where are they now??? [}] Good luck. [8]

[Kirby]

I can't believe this! You're telling us that the reason you underengineered the strut brace was due to the bolts?

How expensive would it have been to upgrade to machine grade bolts, or to add a collar?

Sounds a little like weapons of mass distraction, change the story to match the outcome!.[8)]

(I bought a solid stainless strut bar for my Porsche for a little over $100 ....it is definitely NOT flexible, and there have been no problems with the bolts. This unit gets a workout autocrossing regularly.)

[turbomangt]

Gary, you do NOT win the free detail, changed my mind and I'm going with a 6-PACK instead. These came on the old muscle cars and I saw the engine on a 69 GTX and had to have it. Nice try though. KIrby. I'm honored you commented on my post. I know you are the technical GURU of the PT crowd. Thanks for the support on the BTG brace, I have all the confidence in the guy that is doing the work. Gary

[purple04]

From an outside perspective, since I don't design the bars, I can only offer this: The customer base for PTs is NOT buying the bar to increase the stiffness for autocrossing. We will buy a bar that is easily bolted on and helps handling. If the bars were a maximum effort, they would have a very strong bar with a flange that used all three strut bolts, plus a firewall mount. It would require pulling the struts to replace the bolts, possible drilling at the strut towers for larger hardware, drilling through the firewall, a backing plate in the cowl area, and grade 8 fasteners. Maybe even some welding. It would cost 3-10 times as much, due to the smaller customer base and more expensive materials and added parts. Add in much more labor, too. I'm all for PTs, but if you are modifying one for racing, why not start with a SRT-4? Lighter, lower center of gravity. Same reasons that have relagated us to only stage 1. One of the guys here has an S2000. You should hear what aftermarket parts cost for that!!! Low production and not much cheap room for improvement cause the market to shrink to hardcore, big-bucks options.

[Kirby]

Issues:

Cost: just because others overcharge for their product doesn't justify anything.

Function: even a small ammount of flex in the BTG bar will alter front end geometry and reduce handling.
Putting all the stress on the shock mounting bolts does not seem to be a problem for true performance manifacturers that know how to make parts that work. (Most performance minded buyers don't like B.S. or excuses with their gear.)

Honesty: If you are selling bling, admit it.

[purple04]

Kirby, I agree, but it still boils down to intended use. If you can go from say an .80 skidpad number to a 1 G by putting on tires that wear out in 5000 miles, lowering the car 3.5 inches and putting on 350 pound/inch springs and 1.5 inch anti-sway bars, great. But how many are willing to have a street car that beats them up, drags over intersections (can't even think about driveways) and wears out the unibody in 3-5 years? Our PTs are great Personal Transportation, and we all embrace mods. I don't see anyone here stripping the interior, replacing all the glass with lexan and putting a full race suspension under them. The bars offered are like any street modification; intended to improve a product past the factory compromise. You don't want a car granny would be happy with, but you don't want to install a brace that stiffens the front so much that it requires other mods and ruins the ride. Race cars with no-compromise suspensions require periodic inspections to make sure that fasteners, electrical connections, and components are still okay. If you want to go club racing or autocrossing in a PT, the parts offered would not be useful. You would probably go to a fabrication shop and have a bar made with the features I mentioned before. I'd love to see a PT going around the local track, but it would have to be a fanatic, since the classification for the car depends on how many mods are done. Putting $5k in a PT (wheels, tires, suspension and lightening) would bump you up to a modified class, and you would be marginally faster than a stock SRT4. You would be a back of the pack in the modified class. Simple physics.

[Kirby]

You missed the point.

Stiff chassis does NOT mean stiff suspension, it just means that the suspension does not distort when you turn (as in a freeway exit at 70 - not racing). Distortion will often be felt as understeer (car doesnt give you confidence that it will change directions when asked to do so.)

Some of the finest luxury autos have the stiffest chassis... don't mix apples with oranges - steadying the strut towers is NOT just a racing issue.[8)]