Katrina Victims

[Retro]

I'm reading a great book right now called The FairTax Book by Neil Boortz and Congressman John Linder. Your mention of your refund made me think of the passage I just read earlier this morning. It suggested asking people how much income tax they had to pay this year? And then it says,"listen closely and see how often you get something like this in response:'I didn't have to pay anything, I'm getting something back.'" ...... and then it says "All they can tell you is how much their refund will be. Oh happy day! They're getting some back! They're so thrilled with the refund of excess taxes seized by the government from their paychecks that they've missed the far more important fact: how much of their hard-earned wages the government actually keeps!."...." In one Fair Tax forum, a young lady said she wasn't interested in paying tax on everything she buys, because last year she didn't have to pay any taxes at all. On april 15 she got back a refund- five hundred whole dollars from the government! We then made her a sensational offer: if she'd let us take a thousand dollars out of her paycheck today, next year we'd promise to give her a thousand back- and she'd be twice as happy as she was with her five hundred bucks from the government! She didn't get it. ( go figure.)" ( I get it; I do that kind of math all the time when I want to buy something I shouldn't!)[}]

Anyhow, I can't quote the whole book but it makes so much sense and I highly recommend getting it and actually looking at how our government rips us off on taxes. Bush and the conservatives are at least a step in the right direction.

[robinjoe]

It cracks me up every time I hear the Clinton fans praise his wonderful surplus.

I suppose if they went to the grocery store and paid $5 for a loaf of bread that should cost $2, they would praise the grocery store for having a $3 surplus.

[Johns Steel Blue]

This forum has gotten way off track. Thinks it's time to close it down (IMHO)

[quicksilverdon]

I will agree teacher accountability is a plus. I was a school board president and tried to introduce a merit bonus for the top 10 teachers - selected by secret ballot of the teachers themselves - boy did the union squeal! I knew it wasn't gonna fly, I just wanted to break the mentality. There are good teachers and bad teachers. I feel you can't pay a good teacher too much, and whatever you pay a bad teacher is too much.

The energy bill isn't a plus in my opinion, a give-away to oil companies, no long-term direction like development of fusion.

I granted Afghanistan as a plus, but Iraq was not part of the war on terror.

The idea of introducing risk to Social Security via the stock market isn't a plus to me, and the "crisis" is solved by simply raising the cap - and yes, I earn above the cap.

See, I agree on teacher accountability/testing. [^]In my state, (Joisey) they mandated minimum funding per student, so what did most districts do? HIRE MORE ADMINISTRATORS [xx(] Yeah, THAT will improve education....Throwing money isn't the answer to better education.

[Retro]

OK, somebody wants to return to the topic. Here's an interesting article by Ben Stein about the original subject:
More on Katrina
By Ben Stein
American Spectator
Published 9/12/2005

Fact: Katrina was a devastating storm. It left terrible damage to innocent people's lives and to property throughout the Gulf South.

Fact: There have been other storms as damaging and some far more damaging. What, then, is different about this storm? Here are a few tentative thoughts.

First, the incompetence of the local and state authorities in Louisiana and especially New Orleans was breathtaking. To issue a mandatory evacuation order without providing means of transport is almost criminally irresponsible. To take citizens to shelters where they would be beaten, robbed, and raped, and to provide no police protection for them was astoundingly incompetent. To allow armed gangs to shoot at rescuers was almost beyond belief.

Second, the response of the federal government is described as slow, and it was slow at first. But can anyone name a natural disaster in which more federal troops, supplies, and money have been dispatched as quickly as they have been done in this disaster? Bush's response has not been unusually bad, but amazingly powerful and swift. In other hurricanes, survivors have been left for weeks on their own. In Katrina's case, the whole affected area has been covered with money and aid and troops to restore order on a scale and with speed never seen before.

Third, the networks and newspapers have been quick to cry racism because so many of the victims were black. This is total nonsense. New Orleans is a mostly black city. Obviously, most of the victims of the storm would be black. No one has been able to point to a single instance in which black victims were mistreated because of their race by whites. In fact, just the opposite has happened. The whole story is of rescues and salvation by people of all races aimed at people of all races. In a gesture never seen before, the whole heart of the nation has taken in poor, bereft black families and sheltered them absolutely without regard to race. This is a mirror of the basic goodness of Americans and the disappearance of racism as an acceptable action basis of American life. It is also a measure of the total absence of racism in the heart of George W. Bush. The media may play this as a story of race versus race, but that is pure incendiary fantasy, and dangerous nonsense.

What is the real story of Katrina is (I suggest) not so much that nature wrought fury on land, water, people, property, and animals, not at all anything about racism, not much about federal government incompetence. The real story is that the mainstream media rioted.

They used the storm and its attendant sorrows to continue their endless attack on George W. Bush. Wildly inflated stories about the number of dead and missing, totally made up old wives' tales of racism, breathless accounts of Bush's neglect that are utterly devoid of truth and of historical context -- this is what the mainstream media gave us. The use of floating corpses, of horror stories of plagues, the sad faces of refugees, the long-faced phony accusations of intentional neglect and racism -- anything is grist for the media's endless attempts to undermine the electorate's choice last November. It is sad, but true that the media will use even the most heart breaking truths -- and then add total inventions -- to try to weaken and then evict from office a man who has done nothing wrong, but has instead turned himself inside out to help the real victims.

In the meantime, George Bush does not lash out, does not attack those who falsely accuse him of the most horrible acts and neglect. Instead, he doggedly goes on helping the least among us. I don't know how he does it, but we are very lucky he does. As for truth, it eventually may be salvaged from the flooded neighborhoods of The Crescent City, but not as long as there is a lie to use to hurt an honest man trying to do the best he can, and hundreds of thousands of brave, tireles

[nehope]

I have seen that article/whatever by Ben Stein. It is very good. Bottom line the people in New Orleans were failed by all levels of government. The thing to do now is ensure that that can never happen again - or at least not to this magnitude.

[coolvanillagt]

Absolutely excellent article re;Stein.
Not to start another long argumentive thread, but I was wondering today...what would have been the response if Bush had decided to overide the Mayor and Governor, forced a evacuation, used the busses, etc...and the storm had veered off, creating very little damage?
I can hear Kennedy and Feinstein now....dictator, usurping authority....
Just wondering.

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by Retro

Second, the response of the federal government is described as slow, and it was slow at first. But can anyone name a natural disaster in which more federal troops, supplies, and money have been dispatched as quickly as they have been done in this disaster?

1906. San Francisco Earthquake at 6:16 AM, by 7:00 AM , troops were pouring in, 200,000 rations were sent the next day, rebuilding began in a week. (Source - Newsweek)

Gov Blanco, in particular, is not clean, but this is a regional disaster, covering Mississippi and Alabama as well, and overwhelming local abilities to cope - and was forecast pretty well. 80% of New Orleans population did evacuate - that's an amazing fact.
"Slow at first" - yeah, storm MONDAY, significant federal response FRIDAY. THAT COST LIVES. We were assured things would get better, remember the election promises?
Nobody (other than some admittely muck-racking media hacks) is complaining about where efforts are NOW, my whole point was the response time.
Tuesday morning after the storm it was obvious to anyone with a TV that MASSIVE help was needed. It took to FRIDAY for real numbers to be onsite. MASSIVE help can only come from the Federal arm.
I also read (Newsweek again) that for Camille in 1969, the Red Cross had set up shelters for 85,000 people before Camille even made landfall. Perhaps the Red Cross could improve, too.

[Retro]

Here's the link to the REST of the story. http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist10/06timeline.html You will note that the President wasn't even involved- the mayor ordered the troops in by sending a messenger to the fort. Evidently in those days there were no lawyers and posse comitatus law preventing the quick response independently by local officials. Also, the earthquake and subseqent fire killed 3000, far more than hurricane Katrina, although the final count is not in yet. Also, the empress of China offered aid which President Roosevelt declined.

Also, check out this link as well. http://www.sfmuseum.net/hist/timeline.html about the indictment of the mayor and others in a graft investigation. sounds like they weren't much better back then than the locals in NO today.

[quicksilverdon]

One more time.
I agree local government contributed to the mess. HOWEVER - by Tuesday AM, it was apparent to all but those fond of clearing brush - isolated from contact with any liberal media - that things were out of the local ability to resolve and massive help was needed. It took 'till Friday for that to get between distended ears.
BUSH WAS CLUELESS.
His cronies at FEMA were inept.
THAT is my point.