Is it time for Rumsfeld to go?

[strangelove]

An interesting article from the Army Times,

"It is one thing for the majority of Americans to think Rumsfeld has failed. But when the nation’s current military leaders start to break publicly with their defense secretary, then it is clear that he is losing control of the institution he ostensibly leads."

Here's the rest of the article:
http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f...25-2333360.php

I bring this subject up in respect to all Men and Women serving in Iraq, of whom include some family members of my own. What do Veterans and those in the US Military think about this.

[satellite66]

I think this is a November surprise editorial with an agenda. Nothing more. We have been hearing these same calls since 2000. Just a rehash of the same tired left wing rhetoric. Remember an editorial is only the opinion of the writer nothing more.

[bobs turbo pt]

"an editorial is only the opinion of the writer nothing more"

very true !!

[strangelove]

Look at the source though, "The Army Times" if I'm going to listen to anything, it's going to be from the people and organisations that are fighting for this Country.

[satellite66]

It comes from Gannet and was published in the Army Times. Not exactly from the front lines.

[quicksilverdon]

It irks me that Rumsfeld gets away with lies - "how could we have known?" - Colin Powell, among many others, told him overthrowing Saddam was the easy part, the occupation would be the hard part, but the Chicken Hawks knew better. Remember Powell saying "you break it, you own it"? I do. Powell should be in charge and Rumsfeld should be selling insurance somewhere.
There are many retired Generals who have called for Rumsfeld to go - ones on active duty can't speak up, or their career will be over. General Shinseki wanted more troops, he was basically shoved out of the military.
It is bad enough that we were rushed into Iraq for reasons proven to be false, but that the occupation was so badly managed is criminal. These hypocrites talk of supporting the troops - how many lives have been lost due to Rumsfeld not listening to those with experience? Rumsfeld is a legend in his own mind. I also blame congress for not performing their oversight duties, and questioning what's going on.
It is typical of this ostrich president to proclaim that Rumsfeld is doing a fantastic job - and to state that Rumsfeld will remain for the next 2 years - just like "Heck of a job, Brownie" in Katrina.
Do you know what the "leaner" military means? Duties usually performed by the military itself - transporting supplies, cooking, etc., is now done by for-profit private companies - HALLIBURTON - it takes the same number of people to move and supply an army, we just pay more for some without uniforms. Over 600 US civilians have been killed in Iraq, add that to military losses and more have been killed in Iraq than were killed on 9/11.
We now have Iraq generating terrorists. Our army is so overstretched that Iran and N Korea can laugh at us. Had Rumsfled listened to Powell (and others like Shinseki) and put more troops in initially, and had the plan to keep the Iraqi police and military in place (just remove the top layer) been followed, things probably wouldn't be in as dismal shape as they are now... But Bremer, like Rumsfeld, knows better, and disbanded the Iraqi Army and police..

Remember all this when you vote tomorrow! Support the troops! Throw the corrupt congress out![?]

[satellite66]

Yeah support the troops by putting in those who think they are stupid, murderers and terrorists. Put in those who want to cut and run. Who are more interested in getting back into power than they are in America winning. The ones who think constitutional rights for terrorists is more important than our safety. The ones who reveal secret programs in order to undermine the current admin. In short the democrat party.

[strangelove]

Well whomever you vote for, vote for the person who you think will do the best job. Vote out the people who you think are doing a bad job. I for one think Rumsfeld is doing a terrible job, I just wish we could vote him out on a vote of no confidence. I agree with QSD that Collin Powell would be a better Secretary of State. Powell was the General who led our Military in Desert Storm. Why was Powell sidelined and pushed out?

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by strangelove

Why was Powell sidelined and pushed out?

Because he was a Patriot first and a Republican second.
Powell wasn't "sold" on the need to invade Iraq, when it was clear that Bush & Cheney had planned to go into Iraq before 9/11.
To believe one party is the source of all good, and the other party the source of all evil is delusional. When Bush stated recently "A vote for the Democrats is a vote for the terrorists" we reached a new low in American politics.
Katrina, Abramoff, DeLay, Foley, the deficit, Failure to get Bin Laden, Focusing on Iraq so much that we've allowed Afghanistan to fall back into Taliban hands and become #1 in opium production,.....

This from the party that promised a return to integrity!!! Chicken Hawks.

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by satellite66

Yeah support the troops by putting in those who think they are stupid, murderers and terrorists. Put in those who want to cut and run. Who are more interested in getting back into power than they are in America winning. The ones who think constitutional rights for terrorists is more important than our safety. The ones who reveal secret programs in order to undermine the current admin. In short the democrat party.

I have no idea where you pulled that first sentence from - Limbaugh? I have no clue what it's supposed to mean.
Ah, the "cut and run" talking point... I heard the same crap during Vietnam ... Stay the course - it's not our sons & daughters being killed...
Bush keeps saying "they hate us for our freedom" - I guess he figures by taking away our freedoms, they won't have anything to hate us for. You forgot the word "illegal" in the secret programs part - there is a court to rubber-stamp wiretaps - even after a wiretap - but they feel above the law. If you think the president should have so much power, would you feel the same way if Hillary were president?[:0]
"constitutional rights for terrorists is more important than our safety." - yeah, when they (Bush & Co) determine who's a terrorist and who isn't and allow torture to get "confessions" - I thought we were supposed to be better than Saddam. I am more concerned with the erosion of my constitutional rights than with terrorism.

Have you heard about the government website - intended to prove Saddam was working on a nuclear program (turns out he WAS - before the invasion of Kuwait) that had documents in Arabic that could help terrorists develop a bomb? Revealing secrets is apparently okay if it preserves the ruling party. In their interests to stay in power, they will do anything to twist, manipulate and lie to the people.

I think it's actually funny that they're still trying that fear card - given their incompetence and corruption, I should trust these guys to protect me?