Buy Ford

[jbcrzn]

Originally Posted by cruserdad1976

You know guys it really dosent matter anyway

The car industry is nothing like it was 30 years ago .you know when the customer was the boss

The good life has caught up with us , we can not keep paying the UAW workers what they want, then pay the managers what they want ,and the top dogs taking there huge share, that life is over.
some body has to make some concessions someplace.

when a new pick up cost over $40,000 we have a problem , what person in there right mind would even want to take that truck and go into the woods to cut wood??? haul gravel????or use it as a truck sure its pretty and its hi tec but all we really needed was a truck?????

Can you imagine what people like Henry ford would say today????

Oh well im not arguing with any body but things do have to change and it looks like they are not changing for the best

You are right, and my position that we all have our points to consider when buying, such as seeing cydnaco's Mustang photo could persuade me to reconsider what I am considering for my next vehicle. That is a good looking one!

[Carl48]

Originally Posted by cruserdad1976

You know guys it really dosent matter anyway

The car industry is nothing like it was 30 years ago .you know when the customer was the boss

The good life has caught up with us , we can not keep paying the UAW workers what they want, then pay the managers what they want ,and the top dogs taking there huge share, that life is over.
some body has to make some concessions someplace.

when a new pick up cost over $40,000 we have a problem , what person in there right mind would even want to take that truck and go into the woods to cut wood??? haul gravel????or use it as a truck sure its pretty and its hi tec but all we really needed was a truck?????

Can you imagine what people like Henry ford would say today????

Oh well im not arguing with any body but things do have to change and it looks like they are not changing for the best

Henry Ford would be appalled at a lot of things today but at least his family didn't take the government bailout money.

As far as $40000 pickup trucks go...they are not in most cases used as a work truck. Anyways, did you ever notice how high the tailgate and bedrails are on say a F-150? Wouldn't be much fun having to load dirt into that thing all day...you would have to lift the shovel over your head to get the dirt into the truck. Trying to retrieve tools or material from the bed would also be a pain. The smaller Ranger would actually be a more practical work truck.

[VNT]

Originally Posted by vtmdsm27

Ford turns a profit without socialized bailout - all my cars from now until I die will be Ford or Mercury!

I would if they had something decent to buy LOL

All their cars other than the Mustang are boring, also the only difference between them and Chrysler and GM was they ran with their tail between their legs in early 2008 and borrowed about 25 billion just before the credit markets dried up. GM and Chrysler didnt have to at that time becasue they were in better shape. But they could not sustain themselves once the capital markets dried up and car sales tanked and by then they couldnt access any money to get thru the down turn, hence the need for the govermetn loans and the forced bankruptcy, I am not justifying it but that is the reality the media drive bys wont mention

You do realize Ford is over 30 Billion in debt and has a 1500$ per car cost disadvantage vs GM/Chrysler and the transplants???

Ford has some interesting midsize and small cars but they are 2nd rate versus Challanger/Charger/300/ Charger just cleaned all their clocks in the Michigan State police testing. The new Ram is a much better truck thatn FOrd and the Ram Heavy duty with a Cummins is much better than their Power Joke.

State Police Test

http://www.allpar.com/squads/police-...cars-2010.html

[grungerockjeeper]

I agree with not wanting to put more money into the government beyond what they extort from me right now. BUT, it all comes down to how much i like the actual vehicle. Im a MOPAR guy first and foremost, but the Mustang is f'in sweet no matter how you slice it. And while they are fast, Id never own a Charger or 300 since theyre sedans--and I hate 4-door sedans with a passion. Im not drinkin that much of ANYONE's Kool Aid.

Trouble with Ford is, the 'Stang is about the only vehicle they have thats worth owning. Its the only thing that a male enthusiast can fully sink his teeth into. The Bronco was the other line that Id be interested in, if they brought back something true to the concept of the original '66-'77 model: @ doors, full removeable top, available V-8 with manual tranny, hardcore offroad capability, bare-bones interior, and rugged classic styling. With everything going all 'greenie' and feminized, I doubt it'll happen though.

[grungerockjeeper]

Originally Posted by VNT

I would if they had something decent to buy LOL

All their cars other than the Mustang are boring,

Spoken like a true prodigy!!!

[cdynaco]

Originally Posted by VNT

I would if they had something decent to buy LOL

All their cars other than the Mustang are boring, also the only difference between them and Chrysler and GM was they ran with their tail between their legs in early 2008 and borrowed about 25 billion just before the credit markets dried up. GM and Chrysler didnt have to at that time becasue they were in better shape. But they could not sustain themselves once the capital markets dried up and car sales tanked and by then they couldnt access any money to get thru the down turn, hence the need for the govermetn loans and the forced bankruptcy, I am not justifying it but that is the reality the media drive bys wont mention

You do realize Ford is over 30 Billion in debt and has a 1500$ per car cost disadvantage vs GM/Chrysler and the transplants???

Ford has some interesting midsize and small cars but they are 2nd rate versus Challanger/Charger/300/ Charger just cleaned all their clocks in the Michigan State police testing. The new Ram is a much better truck thatn FOrd and the Ram Heavy duty with a Cummins is much better than their Power Joke.

State Police Test

Michigan State Police 2010 police pursuit car testing

Wow - you can tell this is a Mopar site ROFL. You make it sound like Ford had to borrow money and did so right before the financial collapse. You are uninformed. It was restructuring for his plan 'the Way Forward'. And it wasn't 2008. You might want to read the financials before making false allegations. Mulally - an outsider from Boeing - is exactly what shareholders should have forced GM & Chrysler to do - fire the scumbag entrenched "Detroit culture" starting with Wagoner & Nardelli (who ran HomeDepot's stock in the ground*). Even Daimler couldn't overcome that! And Cerberus was just a leach like all hedge funds gutting what was left. Mulally & Ford have done an outstanding job on products, safety**, dependability, union contracts, and profitability. Where's GM & Chrysler on those lists?? Of course now Ford has to fight the taxpayer subsidized, bankrupt (meaning these two thieves stole from creditors, shareholders and suppliers) losers at GM & Chrysler who will get sweetheart deals on labor, vendors, etc. thanx to chairman obama - and your taxes.

And don't forget... this is the second time Mopar had to go to the taxpayer hat in hand.

As far as the Cummins goes - I wouldn't want a new one. It is the old 6 that really shook em up - if only the pickup itself would last long enough to wear out that engine. I have over a half million trouble free miles on Ford trucks when I was a route driver, from 350 & 460 V8's and the 414 V10, in all kinds of weather with 5000' passes in every direction. Usually I was the one breaking fresh snow. Never a problem, never stranded, which is why my own pickup is an F150 big 6 4x4... now with 252k on it (new engine @ 215). You should see how it pulled a squeeze out of axle deep mud with 3 1/2 ton of hay on the forks! 250k and still pullin'!! LOL We'll see how the marketplace reacts to Ford's self built & innovative inboard exhaust/outboard intake architecture on the new 6.7L turbo D.

Now I've tried my first Chrysler product with my PT. I like its features and it drives well. It is my winter warrior so my Bullitt can stay garaged for the winter. But the mileage sucks and what's with Chrysler not improving the decrepit tranny and numerous other recurring problems after being on the road for 10 years?! Then they not only renegged on the lifetime warranty, but it isn't transferrable. Do you believe in your product or don't you Chrysler?

btw what's up with that 4 door Charger anyways? That used to be a cool muscle car. Morphed into a family car? Get real! Now it - along with the new Challenger (great timing Dodge!) are tubs of lard at well over 4k#'s with no new innovation in the power plants. Hemi shemi! No wonder they're bumping the engine to 6.4 - can't have little 281 Mustangs stayin' up with you! (quarter mile that is - two lane twisties leave the tubby's in the dust) Or supercharged 324's smokin' you! LOL Hell look at the overweight PT - what's with 3100# and a 150hp 4 banger that gets worse mileage than my 3350# 315hp V8 Bullitt???

Respectfully

and Happy Thanksgiving!


* CNBC named Nardelli as one of the "Worst American CEOs of All Time"
Portfolio's Worst American CEOs of All Time - Slideshows - CNBC.com

** Ford, Subaru shine in recent safety tests - MarketWatch

[mjb457]

I bought Ford stock(F) at $2.00 now at $8.00! Im happy better than GM & CHRYSLER!! so ,,,MJB

[VNT]

Ok I was off by about 1 year, they pledged everything in late 2006

Ford Bets The Farm - Forbes.com


As I said I see no difference, Ford is just the same company not truely reformed and trying to sucker new stock holders. If Ford famaily didnt control 50.1% of the ownership you could bet they would have happily gone into bankruptcy also to cleanse the balance sheets and get the new deals from the UAW.

From A Detroit Free Press article Nov 3rd

"Ford avoided federal loans this year largely because it borrowed $23 billion in 2006. That move gave the company the credit line it needed to get through the nation’s worst recession in decades.



As of Sept. 30, Ford’s total debt was $24.2 billion, but with future pension contributions and payments owed to a retiree health care fund, the company’s total financial obligations are about $35 billion."



Time will tell how all this works out.

Per cummins, we have afleet of power Jokes, I work for a Utilty and I cant list all the problems on them. Go to a Ford tech site, Flat Ratetech and see all the nice things. We formerly had GM and Chevy trucks and replaced them with Ford( Cheaper fleet deal). The 5.4s other than some spitting spark plugs and being very thirsty are Ok but the Deisels are terrible and they cant fix them. Never many problems at all with the GM and Chevies, most went 10 years and 250K+ miles.

Enjoy your Mustang

[cdynaco]

Originally Posted by VNT

Ok I was off by about 1 year, they pledged everything in late 2006

As I said I see no difference, Ford is just the same company not truely reformed and trying to sucker new stock holders. If Ford famaily didnt control 50.1% of the ownership you could bet they would have happily gone into bankruptcy also to cleanse the balance sheets and get the new deals from the UAW.

Well considering the tectonic economic shift of late, the difference between 2006 and 2008 is a universe apart. Ford realized the malaise of Detroit and made hard decisions in 2006 - including hiring an outsider - so as to better compete worldwide - before any glimmer of the subprime induced financial collapse was even on the horizon. And the banks had faith in Ford's future and approved the secured loans.
In contrast, your suggestion comes across that they scrambled in 2008 and somehow got funding (when no one else could) as an act of desperation - which is not the case.
As far as banko, any corporation can go chapter 11 anytime they want. But Ford believed in its engineering, product line-up, employees and suppliers; and demonstrated corporate responsibility not to steal by going banko like GM & Chrysler.

Originally Posted by VNT

From A Detroit Free Press article Nov 3rd
"Ford avoided federal loans this year largely because it borrowed $23 billion in 2006. That move gave the company the credit line it needed to get through the nation’s worst recession in decades.
As of Sept. 30, Ford’s total debt was $24.2 billion, but with future pension contributions and payments owed to a retiree health care fund, the company’s total financial obligations are about $35 billion."

That's funny! The article imagines Ford had a crystal ball in 2006 that the Great Recession was coming. GDP was steady and no recession was in play when Ford acted in 2006. DFP is wrong.
As far as debt, that's life in America's land of automotive entitlement mindset where unions demand outrageous benefits - and the big three agreed.
Btw, where would GM & Chrysler be on that debt list if they hadn't begged the taxpayer and became first class theives by going banko, hmmm?
What do you propose, all industry in America file chap 11 and stick the taxpayer and suppliers, etc. just so they could have a clean slate and get a 'do-over'??
Ford has a long way to go, and now its going to be more difficult with taxpayer subsidized competitors, but:
"NEW YORK, Nov 2, 2009 (Reuters) - Moody's Investors Service on Monday raised its ratings on Ford Motor Co (F.N) and its finance arm, citing the automaker's progress in cutting costs and boosting market share.
Moody's was the second rating agency to take positive action on Ford's rating after the automaker earlier on Monday surprised Wall Street by posting a quarterly profit. Fitch Ratings revised its outlook on Ford and Ford Credit to positive from stable, signaling an upgrade to their rating is more likely."
In contrast, how many millions/billions have been GIVEN to GM & Chrysler by wiping out debtholders and shareholders? Not to mention the millions previously given to Chrysler by Daimler & Cerberus writing it off - even before they filed banko. How can Chrysler lose that much money if their products are so hot and dependable???

Originally Posted by VNT

Per cummins,

I really can't speak to diesels since I've never been around them. But the ranchers and horse haulers I know enjoyed the older Cummins because they were powerful and still got around 20mpg loaded or not. I'm told by these guys the newer Cummins gets lousy mileage compared to before (and that's before 'clean' diesel). And when diesel went $5 in 2007, that was a big deal. My hay costs doubled here on the ranch due mostly to fuel costs (and idiots using corn for fuel which pushed dairies into more alfalfa and away from corn... which put increased demand for acreage that was formerly used for horse hay).
I have heard there were troubles with the power stroke. Perhaps that is why Ford is building a new one ground up. Point is they are reacting (including new head design in late '07 on the 3valve due to the poor plug design [and subsequent carbon build-up], rather than ignoring the problem [like Chrysler has ignored the PT tranny among other recurring problems] - or going banko).
My experience is with a coffee/food service company that has 500+ employees and routes in the western half of the US. The entire fleet is Ford due to dependability compared to others they tried in limited areas from GM to Chrysler to Isuzu diesels. My own route was very rural and a huge territory with a high volume, and thankfully my Fords delivered 100%.
My buddy who was a mechanic in the truck shop at Weyerhaeuser said the same thing for their fleet of crummies and cruisers through decades of tough mountain logging country. They tried others but stuck with Ford.
My old '83 F150 (1/2 ton) has hauled a full ton of hay over the mountain pass many times for years before I had it delivered, jerked stumps out, skidded big ponderosa pine, pulled my high cube coffee truck loaded with a couple of ton out of the snow, never been garaged and survived a couple of -22 winters... it's done it all from being a tractor to a highway vehicle for 26 yrs now and that's the best $9600 I'll ever spend for a new truck!
No doubt we all can cite war stories for our likes and dislikes. And you may not like some or all of Ford's products, but thus far it is light years ahead of GM & Chrysler in Wall Street's eyes in contrast to your op.
Btw this is the "other viewpoint" I got concerning the Charger as a pursuit vehicle from two officers that drove them:

"The V6 Charger is junk. I had a test unit as my patrol car. The brakes wear out way too fast. The fuse for the siren and lights constantly blew out. Transmission has too much delay when going from forward to reverse or when puuting it in drive along with the accelerator lag time. Column shifter was put together as an afterthought and was so loose after a few months I thought for sure it was gonna come off in my hand. V6 has no grunt down low. Visibility is non existent.
I will give it good marks for handling. The V6 was okay if you were already going about 40 or so and punched it. It would run right up to 130mph and hold it with no problem.
I have no idea how much difference there is with the V8."
***
"Trenton police reported in last weeks Trentonian newspaper that they are highly dissatisfied with the results of the Chargers they purchased. Apparently most of them are down and the ones that are working are working because they've parted out a percentage of them to keep the others working. No more Chargers in Trenton."
[“We have several with bad engines and transmissions. If you see Dodges in need of repair sitting in our lots, more than likely they are not going to be fixed,” Laird said.]
City cop cars are muscled junk - The Trentonian News: Serving Trenton and surrounding communities. (trentonian.com)

Be careful out there... if its not grounded, its not dead!

[genaro]

Originally Posted by cdynaco

Well considering the tectonic economic shift of late, the difference between 2006 and 2008 is a universe apart. Ford realized the malaise of Detroit and made hard decisions in 2006 - including hiring an outsider - so as to better compete worldwide - before any glimmer of the subprime induced financial collapse was even on the horizon. And the banks had faith in Ford's future and approved the secured loans.
In contrast, your suggestion comes across that they scrambled in 2008 and somehow got funding (when no one else could) as an act of desperation - which is not the case.
As far as banko, any corporation can go chapter 11 anytime they want. But Ford believed in its engineering, product line-up, employees and suppliers; and demonstrated corporate responsibility not to steal by going banko like GM & Chrysler.


That's funny! The article imagines Ford had a crystal ball in 2006 that the Great Recession was coming. GDP was steady and no recession was in play when Ford acted in 2006. DFP is wrong.
As far as debt, that's life in America's land of automotive entitlement mindset where unions demand outrageous benefits - and the big three agreed.
Btw, where would GM & Chrysler be on that debt list if they hadn't begged the taxpayer and became first class theives by going banko, hmmm?
What do you propose, all industry in America file chap 11 and stick the taxpayer and suppliers, etc. just so they could have a clean slate and get a 'do-over'??
Ford has a long way to go, and now its going to be more difficult with taxpayer subsidized competitors, but:
"NEW YORK, Nov 2, 2009 (Reuters) - Moody's Investors Service on Monday raised its ratings on Ford Motor Co (F.N) and its finance arm, citing the automaker's progress in cutting costs and boosting market share.
Moody's was the second rating agency to take positive action on Ford's rating after the automaker earlier on Monday surprised Wall Street by posting a quarterly profit. Fitch Ratings revised its outlook on Ford and Ford Credit to positive from stable, signaling an upgrade to their rating is more likely."
In contrast, how many millions/billions have been GIVEN to GM & Chrysler by wiping out debtholders and shareholders? Not to mention the millions previously given to Chrysler by Daimler & Cerberus writing it off - even before they filed banko. How can Chrysler lose that much money if their products are so hot and dependable???



I really can't speak to diesels since I've never been around them. But the ranchers and horse haulers I know enjoyed the older Cummins because they were powerful and still got around 20mpg loaded or not. I'm told by these guys the newer Cummins gets lousy mileage compared to before (and that's before 'clean' diesel). And when diesel went $5 in 2007, that was a big deal. My hay costs doubled here on the ranch due mostly to fuel costs (and idiots using corn for fuel which pushed dairies into more alfalfa and away from corn... which put increased demand for acreage that was formerly used for horse hay).
I have heard there were troubles with the power stroke. Perhaps that is why Ford is building a new one ground up. Point is they are reacting (including new head design in late '07 on the 3valve due to the poor plug design [and subsequent carbon build-up], rather than ignoring the problem [like Chrysler has ignored the PT tranny among other recurring problems] - or going banko).
My experience is with a coffee/food service company that has 500+ employees and routes in the western half of the US. The entire fleet is Ford due to dependability compared to others they tried in limited areas from GM to Chrysler to Isuzu diesels. My own route was very rural and a huge territory with a high volume, and thankfully my Fords delivered 100%.
My buddy who was a mechanic in the truck shop at Weyerhaeuser said the same thing for their fleet of crummies and cruisers through decades of tough mountain logging country. They tried others but stuck with Ford.
My old '83 F150 (1/2 ton) has hauled a full ton of hay over the mountain pass many times for years before I had it delivered, jerked stumps out, skidded big ponderosa pine, pulled my high cube coffee truck loaded with a couple of ton out of the snow, never been garaged and survived a couple of -22 winters... it's done it all from being a tractor to a highway vehicle for 26 yrs now and that's the best $9600 I'll ever spend for a new truck!
No doubt we all can cite war stories for our likes and dislikes. And you may not like some or all of Ford's products, but thus far it is light years ahead of GM & Chrysler in Wall Street's eyes in contrast to your op.
Btw this is the "other viewpoint" I got concerning the Charger as a pursuit vehicle from two officers that drove them:

"The V6 Charger is junk. I had a test unit as my patrol car. The brakes wear out way too fast. The fuse for the siren and lights constantly blew out. Transmission has too much delay when going from forward to reverse or when puuting it in drive along with the accelerator lag time. Column shifter was put together as an afterthought and was so loose after a few months I thought for sure it was gonna come off in my hand. V6 has no grunt down low. Visibility is non existent.
I will give it good marks for handling. The V6 was okay if you were already going about 40 or so and punched it. It would run right up to 130mph and hold it with no problem.
I have no idea how much difference there is with the V8."
***
"Trenton police reported in last weeks Trentonian newspaper that they are highly dissatisfied with the results of the Chargers they purchased. Apparently most of them are down and the ones that are working are working because they've parted out a percentage of them to keep the others working. No more Chargers in Trenton."
[“We have several with bad engines and transmissions. If you see Dodges in need of repair sitting in our lots, more than likely they are not going to be fixed,” Laird said.]
City cop cars are muscled junk - The Trentonian News: Serving Trenton and surrounding communities. (trentonian.com)Ford tailgate

Be careful out there... if its not grounded, its not dead!

I know im knew to this but forgive me for putting bump on this. Just wanna know better. as PT fanatic, well i have nothing to question but i have no idea what forces me to have a mustang GT. For sometime i realized the deference using the diesel one and the non diesel one. Im quite confused right now but probably i would make the final decision of having it.