24 Years since 1979

[GTSteve]

PTGT: They also make great cars . . .

(unfortunately)

[Kirby]

quote:Originally posted by ptgt

the big problem here is the killing of the autopact a few years back wich gave the imports a even playing feild in north america. no longer do they have to pay a terrif on vehicles entering the country.This moere than anything els is killing the northamerican auto makers. So the government kirby that you hold in such high regard for saving us 25 years ago is also responsible for killing us now. Thats the truth if you can handle it. The imports are and will take over here. It is only a matter of time. why because they are allowed to

Maybe I am too much of an optomist. I don't see the saving of Chrysler Corporation as a governmental project, rather the product of a few VERY strong leaders that would not let their company fail.
Those same weakminded individuals that voted to let Chrysler die then are the ones who see no way to save it now. (I call them the "Uh Oh" squad, good as poll bearers, bad as saviors). How easy is it to point out the coming storm and just say "Inevitable Market Forces".
I do get perterbed when politicians say "we will feel some pain", the politician RARELY feels any pain, and if you're the recipient, "pain" can be death or devestation.

[ptgt]

the pensions that the big three pay out annualy to employees after having been producing in north america for almost 100yrs is enough to put them at a huge disadvantage. The japanese have only been producing here for a few years. They dont have the finacial commitments that the big three have. They are left with no choice but to compete head to head with this. Yes the japs make a better car, that fact is, in this market they can afford to. The big three have no choice but to cut costs if they plan to stay in business. look at the rediculous insentives that are offerd. that is just to stay competative. and hold on to market share, but the fact is, is tthey are losing their shirts compared to the japs. The japs are laughing all the way to the bank. The government is responsible for this. Allowing forign investment to try and save american (and canadian) econimies. We the american (and canadian) auto workers are getting stabed in the back. The big three cant compete in this current environment. If you feel that an import is a far greater automobile then you should be willing to cough up extra for it.

[TripleJackInGA]

"Innovation and market leadership has never been Daimler Benz forte. They have in general been able to be good followers and integrate proven technology, slowly."

Are you seriously trying to say that German auto manufacturers, specifically DaimlerBenz, is not an innovator?!You must have missed the day when they pointed out that Mercedes was the innovator in ABS braking systems in automobiles, among *several* other innovations.

http://www.whnet.com/4x4/abs.html

Kirby, you continue to point out why I usually don't waste my time trying to debate you. I never called U.A.W. workers 'dirty', *you* did that.
And how can any literate person compare what we have been talking about with homicidal killers from World War II?
Oh, and your comment "They (now DCX)jettison jobs and companies as fast as you can say Heil!" puts a nice ethnic slant to your rant too.

Good Job!

[Kirby]

What is your connection with the Daimler Chrysler folks? Do you become this adamant a protector of the faith by simply buying a PT Cruiser? This is extremely interesting.

So you say:

You can't see why any sane company would want to pay UAW workers?

"Kamakazi" is a tactic as well as the "killers" that are now taking over the auto market. (Homicidal killers to you...heros to their Japanese families.)

For a German company to exhault or say heil, might be even more common than you think, unless you have something in sinister mind.

Lastly, my "Job" on this thread is to try to find people that have some recollection of the monumental period around 1979 effecting the Chrysler Corporation.

Yours it seems is to pick a fight.

[ptgt]

im employed by dcx in canada. Im a member of the canadian auto workers union. your comment "heros to their japanese families" is puzzling. explain

[Kirby]

quote:Originally posted by ptgt

the pensions that the big three pay out annualy to employees after having been producing in north america for almost 100yrs is enough to put them at a huge disadvantage. The japanese have only been producing here for a few years. They dont have the finacial commitments that the big three have. They are left with no choice but to compete head to head with this. Yes the japs make a better car, that fact is, in this market they can afford to. The big three have no choice but to cut costs if they plan to stay in business. look at the rediculous insentives that are offerd. that is just to stay competative. and hold on to market share, but the fact is, is tthey are losing their shirts compared to the japs. The japs are laughing all the way to the bank. The government is responsible for this. Allowing forign investment to try and save american (and canadian) econimies. We the american (and canadian) auto workers are getting stabed in the back. The big three cant compete in this current environment. If you feel that an import is a far greater automobile then you should be willing to cough up extra for it.

PTGT,
I couldn't agree with you more about the playing field. The fact still remains that market share comes from how many individual products you sell in relationship to your competitor.
ONE BIG QUESTION:
Why are Americans buying another countries product first.
(This reminds me of when Iacoca took over)
To be a market leader you have to have the product that gives the purchaser the most percieved VALUE for their buck. Sales numbers tell this story in black, white, and in Chryslers case RED.
If American automobile buyers really felt that Chrysler gave them the best value in a car today, giving away all of the profit with it would not have to be a precondition of the sale! Even though the numbers are small you have only to look at the mad scramble to get an SRT-4.
We may be in a case where our politicians are not working for us, look now at our economy and it will become clear....The Politicians are proclaiming a "recovery", while thousands of jobs are being cut on a daily basis.
The truth lies closer to a street named Wall in New York City.
Many of America's wealthiest citizens (that contribute heavily to both our political parties) have more than a passing interest in stock prices. When stocks are up....THEIR economy is up, however Joe Zolnowski UAW worker IN Detroit only sees the weekly check as his indicator. There in lies the problem!
The economy that supports our current politicians is not based on the plight of the working man (if the politician can continue to buy his vote with more campaign $$advertising$$). GE stock can soar because of increased productivity of the Indian (that's India, not native Americans) workforce, bet your bottom dollar JoeZ. wont be part of that boom!

[Kirby]

quote:Originally posted by ptgt

im employed by dcx in canada. Im a member of the canadian auto workers union. your comment "heros to their japanese families" is puzzling. explain

Years past my wife and I hosted teenage kids from around the world in an English Immersion program connected with the local university. Among those kids there were several Japanese boys that, in private moments, shared their understanding of Japanese/American history. You will probably not be suprised that their version of World War 2 was vastly different than the one your kids learn.

My Point: Good Guy or Bad Guy, is sometimes defined by your point of view. [:I]

[TripleJackInGA]

"What is your connection with the Daimler Chrysler folks? Do you become this adamant a protector of the faith by simply buying a PT Cruiser? This is extremely interesting."

No, I have been a life-long supporter of Chrysler, but that is not my reason for debating you.I would argue the same points no matter what the company, based on the points you have tried to pursue.

"So you say:

You can't see why any sane company would want to pay UAW workers?"

And where exactly did I say that, Kirby? What I said, *exactly* was this: "Why would any company with any brains pay a U.A.W. worker $35 per hour to assemble a car when he can get someone in Mexico to do the same thing for about half of that, *if* that much?"

Again, you are taking something I said out of context and twisting it to push your point based on an emotional reaction.

""Kamakazi" is a tactic as well as the "killers" that are now taking over the auto market. (Homicidal killers to you...heros to their Japanese families.)"

I won't even get into this.It is a stretch at best, and has no place in this discussion. While you're at it, maybe labeling DCX as a group of 'Huns' or 'Crouts' might really help your point.

"For a German company to exhault or say heil, might be even more common than you think, unless you have something in sinister mind."

Let me tell you something; German companies don't use this phrase.It's just not done.German companies are hyper-sensitive to any and all references to anything from that period in their history that might even be remotely construed as being anything sinister, therefor they do not do it.I work for a German company, and work with several as my customers.And no, it not only looks bad if someone has something sinister in mind, it just looks bad period.A 20+ year employee of the company, from Germany was looking at your comments and that comment in particular ("They (now DCX)jettison jobs and companies as fast as you can say Heil!"), and the he immediately reckognized it for what it was, which was an ignorant comment directed at a particular ethnicity from an ignorant person.

And no, I'm not here to pick any fights, but I will disagree with you , or anyone else, when I see a someone continually trying to spread either mis-information or some sort of 'agenda' because they have some sort of axe to grind, although I'm not sure why you do this.

[Kirby]

You sure know how to exacerbate a point, but why would YOU want to call the folks a Daimler Chrysler Huns or Crouts(your words only!), I thought you were supporting their cause? What does your German friend think of YOUR use of these epithets? Why would you bring up such language at any time?

My exact quote was not out of context. The same could be said of your job, I'm sure there is a Brazilian guy that would do your job for half what you make, please make a call now and tell your employer that they are crazy to have you as an employee, because there are others that will work for a fraction of your salery !
As for the Union Jobs... talk to any of the thousands that are or will be layed off in the last wave, I will bet that they think that it is a big deal to them. You probably aren't selling any German lighting systems to those folks anyway.

The point is, you are diverting the whole thread to a "look at me, I'm defending Daimler Chrysler" from it's original thought: something that happened when you were only 5 years old (way beyond your comprehension).