Bush or Kerry

[amazingarthur]

Originally posted by coolvanillagt
Satellite and Retro...with you 100%.
Artie and friends...can you give we "idiots who voted for Bush" a specific incident where Bill stood in front of America and took responsibility like President Bush did today? Specifics please.
[/quote]
That's incredible. The whole rant has been - "it isn't Bush or FEMA's fault", now, when the facts became so overwhelming and he issues a weak acceptance of some responsibilty you jump in and sing praises...INCREDIBLE.

By the way, I didn't like or vote for Clinton. He was a liar. Bush Jr. is incredibly inept and clueless. Bush Sr. was a worse liar - that selling of arms to Iran was a disgusting low point not seen since Nixon.

Don, You need to remember that the mainstream newspapers misrepresent everything Bush says. He only accepted responsibility for failure of the Federal Government. He didn't accept failure of what the State and Local idiots did (or didn't do).

His response was exactly right. He said:
"And to the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility. I want to know what went wrong or what went right ... It's in our national interest that we find out exactly what went on so we can better respond. I'm not going to defend the process going in but I am going to defend the people on the ground saving lives."

The typical headlinesread: "Katrina failings were my fault, Bush admits for first time". The headline sets the tone for the entire article. When people read the actual text of his speach after reading the deceptive headline they assume that the entire fault for the failings were Bush's. And then when they read the actual quote, they assume that the failings were the Federal Government's fault in the first place.

This is not an accident. The editors know exactly how to edit a headline to mischaracterize a quote. Otherwise, the headline would read "Bush accepts responsibility for Fed's response". Or better yet: "Katrina disaster was local government's fault" and then as a sub-heading say: "Bush accepts responsibility for Fed's response".


The papers do not always misrepresent what Governor Bush says.

But, the Washington Post did print something saying there was no request for help from the governors in Louisiana and Mississippi. The next day they printed a retraction. Not requesting help was false. Help was requested from the state and local gov'ts. One group of journalists is very biased and only interested in promoting Governor Bush's agenda and they are the ones harping on the the it's the State's fault!

Fox news, Hannity, Rush "Oxycotton" Slimebaugh, and O'Reilly along with a few others will repeat lies until you accept them as truth. It seems to work (see posts by, Robinjoe, Vanilla GT, Satellite and others for proof).

While the state response was poor(not all of those buses were working BTW). The federal gov't response was horrible. Wal-Mart trucks loaded with water were turned away along with a Coast Guard ship with oil, as well as a Hospital ship. FEMA said no thanks.

The funny thing is we are seeing what happens if we "starve the beast" when it comes to federal government. Republicans are supposed to be all about states' rights. How quickly they are to blame the states! If there were marijuana laws or some gay people wanted to get married in Liousanna and Miss. you bet they'd be down there, with religious people picketing too!

Don't forget there were Canadian rescuers on the scene before most US rescue teams. And how bad are things when Mexico is sending help?

This is what happens when you have CRIMINALS IN THE WHITE HOUSE!

[amazingarthur]

Arthur,

There is a fatal flaw in your logic: you assume that Republican politicians are Conservatives. You have to understand that they are first politicians, and then Republicans and then somewhere down the road if they get around to it they might act like a conservative.

I doubt that any of this will change your mind, Arthur, you seem pretty set in your ways, but here goes,

The closest thing we had to a true conservative was Reagan. His tax cuts brought in more revenue to the government. Tax rate cuts create jobs, jobs create wealth, and wealth increases the tax revenue.

The more we tax American business, the harder it is to compete with overseas industry. A rising tide raises all the ships. A strong economy is good for the poor and the rich.

Raising the minimum wage hurts the poor. It just sends more jobs over seas. The notion that anyone should be able to raise a family on minimum wage is a joke. The minimum wage should be reserved for kids working at McDonalds (incidentaly they usualy get more than minimum wage). If you are a good worker, there is no way you should be getting minimum wage. Especially in a strong economy like we have now with an extremely low unemployment rate. It would be even lower if it weren't for all the illegal aliens.

Conservatives happen to think that government is a big black hole with huge overhead, red tape and waste. We would rather see help for the poor through private institutions such as local food banks, Salvation Army, Red Cross, etc.

If you look at county by county statistics, the counties that vote Republican consistently give more to charity.

Affirmative action is a racist program. The problem with education isn't tied to race as much as it is to poverty. If you have a bright hard working white kid from some coal town in West Virginia, he is likely to lose a scholarship or admitance to a school to a rich black kid, even if the black kid happens to be less qualified. Where is the social justice in that?



Why are you righties against paying someone a decent wage! Seemed to work in the 50's we all love so much. Minimum wage may be intended for high school kids, but the fact is kids who come from a family that can't afford to send them to college end up working these jobs for years. How can you afford to have kids, a house, and a car (especially now). The jobs that pay well are few and far between, especially now. I think employess should get more than $5.50 an hour. If those jobs are moved overseas it's because of business deregulations that allow an employer to move to another country with no penalty. Offshore bank accounts and tax shelters mean the companies pay nothing, while we foot the bill!

As far as Republicans giving more to charity that Dems. Here's an example of one of Cheney's donations.
Dick Cheney valued his pro bono public lectures at $232,320 and counted that amount as a charitable donation
What a great giver!

The type of donations you are talking about are to churches. They are trying to by their way into heaven because they know they are guilty of not following the word of the lord. (I'm not serious here.)

Affirmitive action? Governor Bush was a recipient of affirmitive action. When you applied to go to college he got bonus points on his application because his father went to that college too! While affirmitive action is not perfect, you've got to understand, minorities do not always have the opportunities white people get. It is partially race and partially financial no matter how blind we choose to be to it. This is a very tricky topic, I can see how it is frustrating.

Reagan, Yeah, Reagan what a great President. He was a good actor too. LOL!
Trickle down economics worked well, huh? Are you a billionaire? Cause I could see it working for you then.

He put us in massive debt, only a democrat could get us out of that. And it took another republican to get us back into it!

Democrats-tax and spend
Republican-tax and borrow

Now I see the light.

Vote Republican p

[satellite66]

Arty you said "now I see the light". I can't imagine how you can see any light with your head so far up your butt. [?]

[robinjoe]

Arty,

I think you meant to say:
Democrats- tax and spend
Republican- borrow and spend
I couldn't agree with you more. It really pisses me off the way Republicans spend like drunken sailors.

Minimum wage: I know three HS and young college students who worked at local fast food restaurants, and they were all making well over minimum wage. Because they were hard workers.

Charitable donations: Like Cheney is a typical Republican.

Lack of oportunity for the poor: When I went to college to study architecturre, I got a 5 year degree (BArch) at a private college. The architectural tuition cost 30% more than any of the other programs. I didn't get any help from my dad because he wanted me to "make it on my own" (he did). Because of his salary, I got no student aid (just loans). I worked through school, and didn't party, and made it in 5 years.

Minorities don't get the same oportunities whites do, that's true, they get MORE oportunities. What's keeping minorities down are the attitudes in their "community" where they have kids at age 16, are more concerned with drugs and basketball, and have a "blame the whites for everything" attitude. Those who avoid those pitfalls succeed, and are called "Uncle Toms" for it.

I've said it before, Reagan's tax cuts INCREASED the tax revenues because the economy grew. It was the tax and spend Democrats and borrow and spend Republicans in congress that put us in to debt.

[Retro]

Hear,hear, Robinjoe. Arty, you do have a flair for the dramatic, but drama seldom is equivalent to real life. I read your profile, and see you have a very interesting career and I'm sure you are very talented. You also are very young and may not be through learning. I know at age 62 I am just starting! So, with all due respect, you may have a ways to go yourself. But one thing struck me, and that was your client list for your performances. Most of them are large corporations. You seem to have no problem using their prominence to promote yourself, as you should, while bashing the very system that makes them able to pay you. Suppose those very businesses got taxed out of existence to help the "poor" you rant about, and the policies you advocate got actually put into effect.

First those businesses would cut expenses any way they could to survive. I would say the first thing to go might be the comedian/ magic act entertainment for their company meetings. After all, you can have a company meeting without professional entertainment, right? Next would be the advertising and pr. Then sales would drop. That would mean laying off employees. Finally, Honduras or someplace would offer an "enterprise zone"=lower taxes= incentives for business to relocate= bye,bye, goose that lays your golden eggs. You don't even have a clue that you are part of the very system you revile. And, that it is the BEST system in the world!

I suggest two things to enhance your education. One is the easy way. The other is the hard way. If you really want to get a clue the easy way, read something besides the wacko liberal websites where you are getting these talking points. Read a real book, read several. Start with Bias, Arrogance, and The 100 People who Are Screwing Up America by Bernard Goldberg. Then read The FairTax Book by Neal Boortz and congressman John Linder. that should do for starters.

Oh, and if you really need to be whopped upside the head to learn, there is the hard way. Move to Cuba, and try to find work in your field there. They actually have a system like you are advocating. Go see how many prominent corporations would hire you there.

And robinjoe, you are right about preferences for smart minority kids. My daughter took the SAT in the seventh grade on the Duke Talent Search program, and won an award. She won the Houston Scince Fair in physics in ninth grade, again in her senior year and won the Texas science fair in physics. She took the SAT again in her sophomore year and was a National Merit commended scholar. Well, she came home from taking the test and said "Mom, aren't we anything?" I said "what do you mean?" She then told me about the "preferences" listed in the back of the test for "minorities" who could get special perks for being whatever, and wondered why we "weren't anything". I didn't really have an answer to that. I'd like to see preferences for all smart kids, color/ethinc/gender blind. We need to encourage all of them.

[amazingarthur]

quote:Originally posted by Retro

Hear,hear, Robinjoe. Arty, you do have a flair for the dramatic, but drama seldom is equivalent to real life. I read your profile, and see you have a very interesting career and I'm sure you are very talented. You also are very young and may not be through learning. I know at age 62 I am just starting! So, with all due respect, you may have a ways to go yourself. But one thing struck me, and that was your client list for your performances. Most of them are large corporations. You seem to have no problem using their prominence to promote yourself, as you should, while bashing the very system that makes them able to pay you. Suppose those very businesses got taxed out of existence to help the "poor" you rant about, and the policies you advocate got actually put into effect.

First those businesses would cut expenses any way they could to survive. I would say the first thing to go might be the comedian/ magic act entertainment for their company meetings. After all, you can have a company meeting without professional entertainment, right? Next would be the advertising and pr. Then sales would drop. That would mean laying off employees. Finally, Honduras or someplace would offer an "enterprise zone"=lower taxes= incentives for business to relocate= bye,bye, goose that lays your golden eggs. You don't even have a clue that you are part of the very system you revile. And, that it is the BEST system in the world!

I suggest two things to enhance your education. One is the easy way. The other is the hard way. If you really want to get a clue the easy way, read something besides the wacko liberal websites where you are getting these talking points. Read a real book, read several. Start with Bias, Arrogance, and The 100 People who Are Screwing Up America by Bernard Goldberg. Then read The FairTax Book by Neal Boortz and congressman John Linder. that should do for starters.

Oh, and if you really need to be whopped upside the head to learn, there is the hard way. Move to Cuba, and try to find work in your field there. They actually have a system like you are advocating. Go see how many prominent corporations would hire you there.

And robinjoe, you are right about preferences for smart minority kids. My daughter took the SAT in the seventh grade on the Duke Talent Search program, and won an award. She won the Houston Scince Fair in physics in ninth grade, again in her senior year and won the Texas science fair in physics. She took the SAT again in her sophomore year and was a National Merit commended scholar. Well, she came home from taking the test and said "Mom, aren't we anything?" I said "what do you mean?" She then told me about the "preferences" listed in the back of the test for "minorities" who could get special perks for being whatever, and wondered why we "weren't anything". I didn't really have an answer to that. I'd like to see preferences for all smart kids, color/ethinc/gender blind. We need to encourage all of them.

I never agreed with taxing the companies to pay for the poor. I do believe in appropriate taxation, what's with the righties letting them get off with almost no taxes?

The book, 100 People Who are Screwing up America is absolutley ridiculous. He blames people like Jimmy Carter (when was the last time he was in any position of power?) and celebrities. The celebs may have influence on pop culture, but he holds almost nobody in current government responsible. It is a typical conservative book written at a time when things are not going so well and the country is run by righties drunk with power and they need someone else to blame!

Why do you defend these huge companies that make a insane profit and pay very little taxes? It's corporate welfare! You should be outraged. They should have to pay their fair share. Especi

[satellite66]

Arty using your logic then Hilter did nothing wrong because he is out of power. Carter is who started the ball rolling by allowing radicals to take over Iran.
Arty you are a genuine product of the liberal left education system. Profit is bad. Typical class warfare DNC rhetoric.
When you raise corporate taxes what happens? They increase prices or cut back on workers to offset the increase. Neither of these things helps improve the economy. If you cut taxes on those who produce they produce more which leads to growth and jobs.
Tax cuts spur growth it worked long before you were born when JFK did it. It worked when you were a kid when Reagan did it and it is working now that Bush has done it.
You libs never talk about cutting the welfare that has cost us trillions of dollars since the 60's. All those Great Society programs that were supposed to eliminate poverty have done nothing but create a dependant class of people, who don't pay taxes at all, at the producers expense. What about their fair share? Is that fair to those of us who educate ourselves, work hard and achieve to pay for those who doing nothing?

[Retro]

Ok, Arty, I tell you what. If you think those corporations you work for are undertaxed, then when they pay you for your act, don't be a hypocrite and keep the money; send it to the federal government so they can give it to the poor instead of it going to you. You can do something right now, all on your own, to put your money where your mouth is! Now how amazing would that be?[|)]

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by satellite66

Carter is who started the ball rolling by allowing radicals to take over Iran.

WHAT!!! That was Carter's fault!?! INCREDIBLE.
What was he supposed to have done? Invade?
The radicals in the Republican party seem to have taken over America.
BOTH parties caused Iran by putting in and propping up the Shah, who I might point out that while not as bad as Saddam, did quite a bit of his own in torture and murder, but that was okay...

Carter was an ineffective president, but was honest - something not seen since - and he PRACTICES the best of what Christianity teaches - compassion, generosity, concern for fellow human beings - unlike hypocrites like the Bushes.

[satellite66]

Carter failed to support our dubious ally the Shah when he could have. The fall of the Shah was a strategic blow to America.