Bush or Kerry

[thegoldpt]

quote:Originally posted by quicksilverdon

I hope it's just you - were you there? I was - 4/68 - 8/69.

Dad did 2 tours between 69-72 .. Thailand (uh-da-pow), camm-ran-bay, da-nag, Phu ket, he was an Air force communications operatior left as an E-5.
He told me, "i would have gone for a 3rd again" but instead he got sent to the pentagon for a year then back to utah, than to sacramento where he joined the air national guard.

I know it was bad, and i may have been a little stupid on that past comment, because, i guess i could have lost him, and i would not be here. But that is history, i just think the whole leadership was terrible in that war.....

[thegoldpt]

I still think of nixon from history class him muttering "i am not a crook" yeah sure right...... not a crook sure......

[robinjoe]

quote:Originally posted by quicksilverdon

WHAT!!! That was Carter's fault!?! INCREDIBLE.
What was he supposed to have done? Invade?
The radicals in the Republican party seem to have taken over America.
BOTH parties caused Iran by putting in and propping up the Shah, who I might point out that while not as bad as Saddam, did quite a bit of his own in torture and murder, but that was okay...

Carter was an ineffective president, but was honest - something not seen since - and he PRACTICES the best of what Christianity teaches - compassion, generosity, concern for fellow human beings - unlike hypocrites like the Bushes.

Don,

When I read Satellite66's comment I knew someone would jump on him about that, and you are absolutely right: Iran was a lot of people's fault, not just Carter's.

[satellite66]

I never said the Shah was a great guy but he was at the time the lesser of evils. Carter did nothing to stop his ouster making us appear weak.
I'm sure that Carter did not want to get us into another war and I think that clouded his judgement. He was terrified of taking any action. He let Castro dump his jails on us. He allowed the hostage crisis. He pardoned the draft dodgers. His economic policys gave us the worst economy in my lifetime. Just as he does today he preaches appeasment as the only option. He bordered then and now on being a socialist. He is a true liberal not like the phony ones we have today. Carter does care about people in his heart and that might make him a good man but he was still a lousy pres.

[Retro]

Carter does care about people in his heart and that might make him a good man but he was still a lousy pres.

I don't know if anybody can judge or should judge whether he really cares about people or not. But as a parent and former teacher, sometimes if you really care about people you actually help them more by insisiting they be responsible for their own actions and taking the tough route. Handouts and appeasement of bullies and hatred of the good in our own country and not supporting those who are protecting us, like the military, and regimes who help us isn't caring about people in the long run. Sometimes if you really care about people you kick their ass, or kick the ass of those trying to hurt those you care about.

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by Retro
I don't know if anybody can judge or should judge whether he really cares about people or not.

hatred of the good in our own country

I judge by his actions - they speak for themselves.

Hatred? Carter? He doesn't know from hatred. You've spun way too far...[:0]

Again, a decent person, not an effective president, better than the current ineffective president who is in a cocoon of his own making.

[Retro]

quote:Originally posted by quicksilverdon

I judge by his actions - they speak for themselves.

Hatred? Carter? He doesn't know from hatred. You've spun way too far...[:0]

Again, a decent person, not an effective president, better than the current ineffective president who is in a cocoon of his own making.

Yes, HATRED. Read the book, The 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America, page 282. I can't quote the whole chapter, but here is a sample:
"Never mind the good notices he gets in the mainstream press,never mind the Nobel Peace Prize he won in 2002 after years of campaigning for it, a good case can be made that Jimmy Carter has done even more damage since he left the White House than he did in it. And that's mainly because, in his role as world citizen, he has regularly lent critical support to regimes that have no use for democratic values, and even less for the United States.

He's even made a habit of ignoring the crimes of many of these regimes against their own citizens.'The ex-president is known as Joe Human rights', as National Review Online's Jay Nordlinger puts it, 'but he's mighty selective about whose human rights to champion. If you live in Marcos's Phillipines, Pinochet's Chile, or apartheid South Africa, he's liable to care about you. If you live in Communist China, Communist Cuba, Communist Ethiopia, Communist Nicauragua, Communist North Korea, Communist.....:screw you.'"

and :
"So whom has Carter given a free pass? Well, there was Romania's brutal Communist dictator Nicolae Ceausecu, who was executed by his own people, who Carter once proclaimed, believed "in enhancing human rights"; there was even North Korea's "great Leader" Kim Il Sung, of whom Carter said, " I find him to be vigorous, intelligent, surprisingly well informed about the technical issues, and in charge of the decisions about this country...I don't see that they are an outlaw nation."........
Hello? North Korea, who is starving millions of their own people and the worst regime in the world not an outlaw nation? And who does Carter single out for criticism? Why, Israel and the United States, of course. So, no, Don, I am not "out there" on this, many thoughtful people can read Carter's own words and figure out that he has indeed been bitter and hateful and selective in who he supports, and very destructive to his own country's foreign policy. Oh, and he also has supported Castro, he's one of his big faves.

[Hill Cruiser]

Are we to support corrupt governments that endorse the use of kidnapping and torture of their own people to maintain control like the Shaw did? Do some of us feel it's okay to disregard our basic principals of democracy in other parts of the world if it fills our needs here in the US?
While we may feel threatened by the Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East who only want their governments to be based on their religious belief, many of us show only enthusiasim when the Christian Coalition does the exact same thing here?
It is my opinion that it's not Nixon's, or Carter's, or Reagan's, or whoever's fault, it's our fault. We put them there and we'll apparently keep putting them there if they have the right label (Republican or Democrat).

I REALLY wish John McCain would form his own political party. I have far more respect for that man than anyone else in Washington. To those of you from Arizona who have put him in office, I thank you! If we only had 600 more just like him this might become a decent place for EVERYONE to live.

[thegoldpt]

quote:Originally posted by Hill Cruiser

I REALLY wish John McCain would form his own political party. I have far more respect for that man than anyone else in Washington. To those of you from Arizona who have put him in office, I thank you! If we only had 600 more just like him this might become a decent place for EVERYONE to live.

Are you my clone or something? I totally want him as president, i always thought he would be our best choice. If he runs in '08 i will vote for him. I have great respect for that man... a true american hero....

[coolvanillagt]

quote:Originally posted by Hill Cruiser

Are we to support corrupt governments that endorse the use of kidnapping and torture of their own people to maintain control like the Shaw did? Do some of us feel it's okay to disregard our basic principals of democracy in other parts of the world if it fills our needs here in the US?
While we may feel threatened by the Islamic fundamentalists in the Middle East who only want their governments to be based on their religious belief, many of us show only enthusiasim when the Christian Coalition does the exact same thing here?
It is my opinion that it's not Nixon's, or Carter's, or Reagan's, or whoever's fault, it's our fault. We put them there and we'll apparently keep putting them there if they have the right label (Republican or Democrat).

I REALLY wish John McCain would form his own political party. I have far more respect for that man than anyone else in Washington. To those of you from Arizona who have put him in office, I thank you! If we only had 600 more just like him this might become a decent place for EVERYONE to live.

As a Arizonan('Zonie)...let me say that many of we desert dwellers are quite disappointed in McCain. I respect his service to our country, but not his political service. Good at flowing with whatever poll there is, more aligned with Democrats than Republicans...the phrase here is "Anybody but McCain" . Will definitely vote against him.