True rednecks

[Jimbo]

True Rednecks
You might be a redneck if. . .
it never occurred to you to be offended by the phrase, "One nation, under God. . ."
you've never protested about seeing the 10 Commandments posted in public places.
you still say "Christmas" instead of "Winter Festival."
you bow your head when someone prays.
you stand and place your hand over your heart when they play the National Anthem.
you treat Viet Nam vets with great respect, and always have.
you've never burned an American flag.
you know what you believe and you aren't afraid to say so, no matter who is listening.
you respect your elders and expect your kids to do the same.
you'd give your last dollar to a friend.
We have enjoyed the redneck jokes for years. It's time to take a reflective look at the core beliefs of a culture that values home, family, country and God. If I had to stand before a dozen terrorists who threaten my life, I'd choose a half dozen or so rednecks to back me up. Tire irons, squirrel guns and grit -- if that's what rednecks are made of. I hope I am one of them.

[MichaelDay]

Amen Jimbo

[taikuchin]

No doubt about it, I sure as hell aint no redneck....however:
One Nation under God, doesn't offend me, I just prefer the original: "One Nation, indivisible.." What offends me is someone insisting on teaching my kids (& grandkids) their religion in a public school.

I don't much care where you post your religious beliefs, but under the Constitution, they don't belong in Government facilities. Period.

I've never heard an actual person say "Winter Festival". Christmas is more a social event than a religious one.

When someone prays, that's their business, not mine.

The National Anthem belongs to us all, not just rednecks.

Viet Nam vets have always received the greatest respect from me, it's their leaders who screwed them & still are screwing them.

How many American flags get burned every year...a real stupid non issue. The rednecks can have it if it makes them happy.

Knowing what you believe & knowing the truth are often 2 very different things. Learning is better than believing.

[robinjoe]

The thing is that our public schools ARE teaching their religion in school. The official religion of the public schools is atheism.

To deny the positive influence of God and religion on history (especially the founding of the USA) while frequently making reference to the evils done in the name of God (the inquisition is a favorite) is just one way that the atheist religion is pushed in the public schools.

We teach our kids about traditions of other nations (African, Russian, Asian, etc.) why do we work so hard to deny the traditions of our own nation (like Christmas). Let's not forget, our inalienable rights are provided by God, not Congress.

Joe

quote:Originally posted by taikuchin

No doubt about it, I sure as hell aint no redneck....however:
One Nation under God, doesn't offend me, I just prefer the original: "One Nation, indivisible.." What offends me is someone insisting on teaching my kids (& grandkids) their religion in a public school.

[deederz]

not a redneck JIMBO!


just a good AMERICAN!

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by robinjoe

The thing is that our public schools ARE teaching their religion in school. The official religion of the public schools is atheism.

To deny the positive influence of God and religion on history (especially the founding of the USA) while frequently making reference to the evils done in the name of God (the inquisition is a favorite) is just one way that the atheist religion is pushed in the public schools.

We teach our kids about traditions of other nations (African, Russian, Asian, etc.) why do we work so hard to deny the traditions of our own nation (like Christmas). Let's not forget, our inalienable rights are provided by God, not Congress.

The sterotype of a redneck is one who sees things as black or white (often literally). I haven't found life that simple.

God had nothing to do with the founding of the US or giving or keeping our rights. People came initially because of religious persecution, and when they formed a government they formed it detailing rights in our constitution.
Government and religion must be kept separate - if not, which religion do you choose? Christianity? Then what happens to religious freedom? - which our country WAS founded on. Christmas and Easter are Christian holidays - they are not Bhuddist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, etc., holidays. I think religion should be tought in school - all religions - as a course like History. We as Americans are largely ignorant of religions other than Christian.
I find it incredible when I hear some want Creationism taught in public schools. Not with my tax dollars. I want schools to teach facts. Sunday schools can teach whatever they want.

I think the intent is for us to have "faith" in our government. I spent 16 months in Vietnam and it (and Iraq) ruined my faith in God and my government. I don't accept things without question any more.

[MichaelDay]

Don, I have to respectfully disagree with a couple of points you are making here. Go back and reread your history (unless it has already been written out of the history books). You are correct that avoiding religious persecution was one of the issues facing our founding fathers BUT the United States was created based on the recognition of the IMPORTANCE of religion to the survival of the country and to the importance of basic values to the country. What many people want is for the government to have NO values. The Puritan values of hard work, helping others, faith in a all powerful creator, freedom to speak out for those things you believe in, freedom to practice your religion are as important today as they were over 200 years ago. The founding fathers were trying to keep government from interfering with peoples right to practice their religion NOT to keep religion from influencing government (which it did from the very beginning) and CERTAINLY NOT to keep people from being able to practice their religion. I know what I believe and I respect your right to believe whatever you believe but if you look around you will find that one of the most demonized groups are those that share the convictions of the founding fathers.

As to teach only "facts" in school, then the teaching of evolution would have to be banded since it certainly isn't a "fact", only a "theory" developed by Darwin.

As a British commentator used to say "May your God go with you."

[taikuchin]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelDay

You are correct that avoiding religious persecution was one of the issues facing our founding fathers BUT the United States was created based on the recognition of the IMPORTANCE of religion to the survival of the country and to the importance of basic values to the country. What many people want is for the government to have NO values. The Puritan values of hard work, helping others, faith in a all powerful creator, freedom to speak out for those things you believe in, freedom to practice your religion are as important today as they were over 200 years ago. The founding fathers were trying to keep government from interfering with peoples right to practice their religion NOT to keep religion from influencing government (which it did from the very beginning) and CERTAINLY NOT to keep people from being able to practice their religion. I know what I believe and I respect your right to believe whatever you believe but if you look around you will find that one of the most demonized groups are those that share the convictions of the founding fathers.

As to teach only "facts" in school, then the teaching of evolution would have to be banded since it certainly isn't a "fact", only a "theory" developed by Darwin.

Many people today confuse the Puritans with the Founding Fathers..Our founding fathers were not Puritans.. One of the reasons that most of our founding fathers were determined to separate religion from government was the excesses of the Puritans. Remember the witch trials?..good example of govenment influenced or rather controlled by religious fanatics. Many of the framers of Constitution were not even Christians- they were deists who believed in a creator who does not interfere with his creation. Jefferson among others was suspicious of organized religion & said so on many occasions. He was also a politician who recognized that he needed to apease the Christians if he wanted to prosper & so paid lip service to the church while writting his true feelings in private letters (which are available), much like our current politicians.The US was founded on the princeples of liberty & freedom, with freedom of AND from religion..religion had very little to do with it. Count how many time that Jesus or God is mentioned in the Constitution. The declaration mentions only the Creator & we can assume that if a bunch of Christians had written it, it would be loaded with Jesus's, God's & lots of Amen Brother's. The idea that evolution is an unproven theory is nonsense...there is infinatly more evidence proving evoloution than there is evidence proving creation...Exchanging science for faith makes no sence. Religion relies on faith simply because the existance of God can't be proven. Science relies on facts or it fails. The two cannot logically be mixed.

[quicksilverdon]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelDay

Don, I have to respectfully disagree with a couple of points you are making here.
As to teach only "facts" in school, then the teaching of evolution would have to be banded since it certainly isn't a "fact", only a "theory" developed by Darwin.
As a British commentator used to say "May your God go with you."

No problem, Mike - I'm not offended - this is a discussion.
Science uses the term "theory", but it's based on facts. Einstein developed several theories, and they are still called theories, but they were proven at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Pick up this month's issue of National Geographic - it has an excellent article on evolution. Darwin wasn't the first nor the last to study and prove evolution. Just look at breeds of dogs - it isn't hard to see.

One last point regarding separating church and government - "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's". and "My kingdom is not of this earth". (probably not exact quotes, I'm going from distant memory). Where Christ made clear he was not touching government, so why should his followers want it different?.

[robinjoe]

It seems to me that the real problem is that we as Americans have gotten lazy. We have handed more and more of our lives over to the government over the years.

Public schools are a failure because they force us to comply with the lowest common denominator. The emphasis here is on "common". By this I mean that we are so concerned with offending anyone that they eliminate anything that might in our wildest dreams be deemed offensive.

Flaws in the evolutionary theories are swept under the carpet for fear that someone might construe that to be teaching Creationism. There are many different evolutionary theories, and the proponents of each theory have conclusively proven the other theories wrong.

I think Public Schools should be entirely replaced by a voucher system. Let parents raise their kids the way they want to, in the schools they choose. Get government out of the school business, but provide some funding so that the poor have a chance too.

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." ~George Washington in his farewell address.