Replacing stereo: Noob question (please help!)

[OzNimbus]

Hey all,

Total Noob here.... just replaced my speakers today with the help of those excellent online guides - went very smooth, added Pioneer Premiers to the rear & doors (pretty damn impressive!)

My question: I'd like to replace the factory deck with something that has USB & AUX inputs... no problem there, but every deck I've looked at has 4 powered outs & the PT has 6 speakers.... am I going to have to buy a seperate amp as well, or do the tweets & door speakers run off the same outputs on the factory stereo?

Thanks,
-0z-

[chris15]

First off, I didn't really mess with my stock speakers for very long.

I'm almost certain that the 'Left front speaker' wire in the harness is somehow wired to a crossover or is eventually split and resistors are used for the tweeters and the woofers, so to answer your question: an amp is not required, the speakers are powered through the harness you will have to connect to your existing wires and eventually to your headunit.

The powered outputs you see are used when you've got an amp. If you decide to buy an amp, make sure it has a sub-out as well, in case you plan to add one in the future. Here's how your wiring will work:

Headunit --(RCA cables)--> Amp --(Spkr wire)--> Crossover IN

Then from there you have two separate outputs from your crossover, one set of speaker wires for your tweeters, and another for your woofers.

Hope that helps.




Edit: For clarity, he's a pic of the back of a generic HU:




The black female connector (swear I'm not racist! ) is where the new harness will plug into, after you solder or crimp the existing wires to it. Those wires will include the wires that run to all of your speakers.

Now, if you CHOOSE to utilize an amp, you will use the RCA outputs seen in the set of 3. (Front, Rear, Sub) If you go this route, you will have to re-wire your speakers.

[Duster]

Originally Posted by OzNimbus

Hey all,

Total Noob here.... just replaced my speakers today with the help of those excellent online guides - went very smooth, added Pioneer Premiers to the rear & doors (pretty damn impressive!)

My question: I'd like to replace the factory deck with something that has USB & AUX inputs... no problem there, but every deck I've looked at has 4 powered outs & the PT has 6 speakers.... am I going to have to buy a seperate amp as well, or do the tweets & door speakers run off the same outputs on the factory stereo?

Thanks,
-0z-

No
Yes



An amp is highly recommended if you wanna get all the benefits from your new speakers though.

[bobdole369]

I'm almost certain that the 'Left front speaker' wire in the harness is somehow wired to a crossover or is eventually split and resistors are used for the tweeters and the woofers,

Yup, no resistors though.

The "crossover" is a 10uf cap. The "front" on the harness goes first to the door speakers, then to the tweets in the dash with the cap in series. This makes the set "component" by definition LOL. It presents a 4 ohm impedance as anything above the xover point goes to the tweets, while anything below goes to the woofers in the door. If those pioneers are a coax set with a tweeter on it, you won't hear the tweeter at all as those freqs are going to the dash speakers.

Maybe we can get you into the SQ scene. I would not even consider using any head unit power to run anything but stock speakers.

Some advice if you'll listen - probably a bit advanced for a self-confessed noob, but maybe it'll help and maybe someone someday will take something from it.: Lose the rear speakers, they add nothing to your sound. They exist only for the rear seat passengers and screw up the front soundstage/imaging.

Open the dash pad and remove the tweeters. Dremel out some of the plastics and the mounts for the old tweeter and you'll be left with a hole big enough for a 3.5" mid. Run new wires up there. Find a spot to mount tweeters (such as the sail panels or the kick panels, or even in the air vents). Run wires and mount the tweeters. Now you have a 3way front soundstage. Put midbass on the door speakers (which will handle a 6.75 or 7 inch woofer), midrange on the dash speakers, and highs on your tweeters. Get the levels right and RTA the sucker. Now your system will sing. Of course this requires 6 channels of amplification, and either an intimate electronics background to understand the passive filters you'll need, or an active head unit like the Pioneer 800 or 880PRS, or an active crossover. You'll need a sub before too long...

Good sounding audio is a lot of work - but its completely worth it!

Remember the goal of audio is to reproduce the sound of the recording as the artist intended. Not to be loud, annoying, or to be played as loud as mechanically possible.

[chris15]

I wasn't really sure what the technology was behind the stock speakers, as I simply ditched whatever wiring was previously there when I installed my Polk components. Thanks for clearing that up, and also for the explanation. I'm sure it will help a lot of people if they take the time to use the wonderful 'Search' function.

Never thought to use a 3-way configuration. Is this just an idea of yours or are you actually using it? If so, how are you wiring it and most importantly: how's it sound? :P

I'd be more than willing to move my tweeters to my pillars or sail panels if it's worth it. I'd probably have to see about a new set of woofers in the doors, though, as I don't particularly like the bass response of the db6501s..

Thanks again, and great post. Hopefully if the OP has some more questions, you'll be around to help!

[bobdole369]

Never thought to use a 3-way configuration. Is this just an idea of yours or are you actually using it?

Actually installed and running atm.

Boston Acoustics SX65's (6.5" coax) in the doors, S35's (3.5" coax) in the dash, and Dayton ND20FB-4 tweeters(3/4"). You'll laugh when I tell you where the tweeters are mounted.

I started out like most folks - just replaced the speakers (realized quickly that I could get 3.5's in the dash, so thats what I bought), then the head unit, and before too long I fell into SQ lands mystical crossovers and positioning and "imaging" even.

Unfortunately I fell into a problem most folks don't realize - and thats you can't have more than one source for a given frequency, unless you do time alignment (that is delay the speakers for certain amount of time). It's because the speakers are at a different distance from your ears and the sound arrives at different times. The mixing causes distortion.

So I was flabbergasted at how crappy my full-range driven 3 sets of speakers (I still had the rears hooked up in the beginning) - compared to other folks. Figured out crossovers and why they exist and that started me down this trail.

One of these days I'm getting better speakers, but I'm poor so it'll be a while. The BA's have held up well but there are much better speakers out there.

Currently the doors crossed at 100hz - 800hz (6db slopes), mids at 600-3kish (6db) and the tweeters 2.5k and up. Also have a 10" JL Audio 10w3v3 in a 1cuft sealed box in the back. All done passively with coils and capacitors, except I also have an audiocontrol EQX thats basically just a sub crossover at 100hz and a big ole eq.

I think my sound could be better. It's very realistic, imaging is very good, sound is bright, bass is nice and tight, but I still struggle with the dips and peaks of the cars interior. PT's EAT midbass. I'm moving to a car PC in the near future, solely to have the PC handle the crossover and so I can do cheap time alignment - thats gonna be FUN!

BTW the tweeters are mounted in the flat bit thats above the 6" door speakers. Just made a hole and sealed the tweeter in there. Not good if you got kids, but the distance is roughly the same as the dash and the door speakers. I couldn't find a better spot that didn't require destroying expensive parts of the car. i did not like the idea of visible tweeters in the sail panels, wanted to keep it pretty stealth.

[chris15]

I see.. it's definitely an interesting concept, one that I might possibly pursue in the future.. sounds quite involved but I'm sure with some careful planning and a small sum of money, it could be done nicely.

Just an idea-- you could probably have picked up a set of 3 or 2-gauge pillars and somehow wired a tweeter in one of the pods and maybe one or two useful gauges in the other gap(s).

I've got an Alpine 12" in the back in a 1.25cu.ft. sealed enclosure that distorts a bit at higher volumes, so I'm thinking of picking up a smaller, ported box, as I've heard good reviews about Type-R's in ported boxes.

Egh, I think we just thread-jacked..

[OzNimbus]

Originally Posted by bobdole369

Remember the goal of audio is to reproduce the sound of the recording as the artist intended. Not to be loud, annoying, or to be played as loud as mechanically possible.

You're preaching to the choir!


I'm a sound engineer by trade. My cruiser is where I check my mixes.... and show them off to clients, so yeah, the back speakers are sorta needed


But I'd like to thank everyone who chipped in with advice, you help is much appreciated!

The eventual plan is to be able to hook up a laptop via an Aux input & tweak my mixes right in the car. It's a very neutral acoustic environment.... no thick concrete walls to keep the bass bouncing back out of phase like the studio...


-0z-