Latest Stg. I Upgrade Info from MOPAR employee

[UniqTwin]

quote:Originally posted by PTGT Redman

If VIN is for security, won't dealer's know we installed or bought Mopar parts?
My dealer said if I even ordered it, the upgrade would void my warranty.
That's a threat on their part.
So i could order it, not install it, and they would just void it without even inquiring.
Tell me if this is not the case.

Let me try to expand on this... Several vehicles have a disabler function tied to the Sentry Key. When the vehicle is first started the module associated with this and the ECM communicate and imprint the key code into the ECM. This code must match from then on for the vehicle to start. If a new ECM is installed, it has to be flashed with your VIN. If this is not performed, the vehicle will not start.

To make sure we covered this, we decided to use an ordering system that asks for a VIN to make sure that we captured it and are able to flash your kit for you.

[SteelBlueGT]

If that is the warranty you can count me in because I need the car for my daily driver (wife) but now what about that this part is not for pollution controled vehicles??

[ptcruzin42]

thanks for your response uniq, I guess that SHOULD settle the warranty question for alot of people. I know there will be no doubt in my mind about buying it now. Always for everyone else...Chrysler developed this engine with 350 hp in mind, do you honestly think that some fuel injectors and a new pcm are going to blow up your engine? It's only another 20 hp. One last thing I heard someone say in this post that we are only actually getting like 10hp...that is not true, our cars were rated at 215 but dyno more, they're rating the kit at 235, it will dyno more than that, have some faith in Chrysler. They rate the SRT at 215hp also but it pushes like 235, they're kit is rate dat 240...are they only getting 5 hp?? No! These are just ratings to pull you, the actualy dyno numbers will be higher. Also Mopar makes extremely high quality parts, take it or leave it, if your going to leave it don't bitch about it, you knew what you buying when you bought it...did you just call up and say "hey I want a turbo ship it to m house" and never even look at it? Settle down people.

[UniqTwin]

You will receive a new NGC-3 module - new technology for '04. The module will be flashed with the new calibration (process will take our supplier about 15 minutes per module).

The dealers are not set up at this time (meaning they don't have the tool) to flash the NGC-3 module.

You will be able to do the installation your self (if you are mechanically inclined) in about 1.5 hrs. You can always swap it out and go back to stock.

[Cal Cruzer]

Uniq,
Sorry to keep beating this dog but ptcruzin42 posted that his dealer told him that if he even ORDERED it that the warranty would be suspect or voided. Having our VIN on file, will it show up in the dealership system when we take it in for service that we have the upgrade? If this is the case, many dealers will just flat out blame most repairs on the upgrade. If it is not tied into the dealer system then I would not be so concerned.

Secondly, here is CA the smog issue is a VERY big deal. Is DC working on this? This should be smogable.

[SHOVEL100]

I really don't understand what all the pissin an moanin is about the warranty
Lets say you go stage 111 and blow your motor .its only a motor .not the whole car
the motor cant cost more then 3 grand installed
you better damn well bet I'm gonna get more then 3G worth of fun before it blows
how much was the last concert or ball game ticket you bought ???
either haul a$$ till it blows or stay home on the porch with grandma
if we wanted to be conservative we would have bought a mini van
but no we had to get the coolest lokin turbo model on the market

drive it like ya stole it[8)]

on another note I have a real cool dealer
oil change and complete warranty check over $29 plus they wash my pride an joy for free
anyway
go easy on your dealers dc really screws them on warranty work
a very good friend of mine for many years is a tech at the dealer and if the job generally takes per say 5 hrs dc pays 2-3 hrs which in my book tells me dealers that dont care about thier customers are going to do a less then thorough job on warranty work

bottom line is i would say the small town lower sales dealers are gonna treat you the best [^]

[Kirby]

My life experience tells me that if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk it probably is one.

It is heartbreakingly obvious that DC wants something for nothing. They can stock(only in small numbers)aftermarket parts.
They will sell them.
They want NO responsibility for them.
If you believe that they have spent one second trying to deal with any other issue than performance, you are living in a dream world!!
MANY other companies help their customers with the issues like warranty and CARB/DOT because they have integrity.
INTEGRITY is an easy word to splash all over your adds, but is in actuality a very hard road to travel and must be a priority from the top down.
In this case; to flop down parts and be so slimy and unresponsive about the real world issues stinks to heaven!
I have grave concerns that more time has been spent on the glitz and buildup that the actual nuts and bolts.
Do I really think that my question about California Emissions testing originated on this website? I am FULLY of the mind that these issues were discussed BEFORE a DIME was spent on aftermarket.(I have vissions of cigar smoking bigwigs laughing and saying "let the **stards handle their own warranty".)
This has the earmarks of a scabbed on, knee jerk reaction to real world trends.
Why are the Japanese ALL over this market with warranted parts? They see the youth market emerging...while the suits at DC and in Germany are trying to duplicate cheap 40 year old MB look alike cars through Chrysler.
I see a total disconnect at the top here.
You have a handful of automotve engineers fighting uphill to help enthusiasts, and a boatload of bloated execs, fat on their bonuses, squeezing the life out of the product line, removing bits and pieces here and there to save a dime. When it came time to belly up and support the Performance Group they dissapeared faster than cockroaches when the light comes on.

So far here is what I have heard as official INTERPRETATION (not just the verbage):
1) DC won't stand behind the actual parts.
2) DC will allow any dealer to judge if the parts void the warranty.
(Starting to get kind of slimey here)
3) DC has done SQUAT about emissions.
(This is reprehensible, and shows how shallow this program really is, website and all. Why is it that we have to rattle a tin cup for crumbs of information at the back door?)

DC!! HERE IT IS!!!!

We are not racers.
We do not spend our lives at the track.
20 HP will not make the PT Turbo a track competitive automobile.

We ARE enthusiastic owners.
We are a source of free advertising of the very highest quality.
We have an understanding of the automotive world as it applies to our needs: We know other manifacturers have bellied up to the bar for CARB/DOT and DEQ help!!!!!
We know that the old and tired "read the warranty" and "as we always have done" phrases don't cut it.
IF YOU WANT OUR SUPPORT: BELLY UP TO THE BAR AND GIVE US THE KIND OF SUPPORT THAT YOU WANT IN RETURN!!!
IF YOU WANT TO HIDE AND SLITHER, THEN EXPECT THE WORST KIND OF WORD OF MOUTH.
DON'T BE(as the Texans say) "ALL HAT AND NO CATTLE".

[Cal Cruzer]

Or watch your enthusiast community the supports these cars look elsewhere next time. This is not an old 60's Mopar community. We are buying new cars from you, not rebuilding old cars that you only made a profit on 40 years ago. If you want to sell new cars to us again, give us the support that other manufacturers provide in their aftermarket products.

[Dalite]

Well, so far, Stage I will only affect powertrain; as defined to be engine and drive train.

That pretty much eliminates body, glass, interior fabrics and tires. Wait a minute, aren't those items already exempt from warranty as "wear" items? Then there are other comfort items; stereo, speakers... items that aren't associated with engine and drivetrain...

We still factor down to the Dealer's interpretation. The real-world interpretation is that the Stage I enhances performance, and thus changes the configuration from stock. Chrysler based it's limited warranty (After the 12 month 12,000 mile portion) on the stock powertrain holding together; after normal exclusions and disclaimers.

Now we can intepret that only what is affected by a Stage I upgrade can be expected not to be covered by warranty if there is a failure created by the upgrade.

Back to what the Stage I upgrade affects - Powertrain as defined to be engine and drivetrain.

Anyone who can factor the real world warranty situation to a more consise semantic equivalent, please do so.

In the end, we have a warranty (before any modifications; Stage I or otherwise) that each claim is approved or delcined based on more variables than could be defined in the verbage of the warranty. In other words, the warranty is an open-ended statement of intent.

When we add in the modifications, we have the original warranty (open-ended statement of intent), which is specifically ammended to limit those variables that deviate from the original configuration that the open-ended statement of intent applied to.

I am beginning to see a situation that no amount of forum discussion or reprinting of ambiguous warranty verbage will resolve. It still boils down to a case by case evaluation at the dealer level. Zone reps can also be a part of the equation.

And we all know how well we did on resolving the Rear Stabilizer Bar issue; don't we?

It is still a crap shoot; you roll the dice and you take your chances. A heart to heart talk with you servicing dealer may be the best that any of us can hope for in providing any assurance. Unfortunately, the Service Manager is probably getting the same policy rash as the customer; only exponentially. That feel-good association with your local service department goes out the door with the service people, when they become so affected by the same policy lottery that they move on. I am on my second PT Cruiser, and Second Service Manager. The dealer gives the same interpretation of the warranty and modifications; "We'll decide when the need arises."

As far as the Mopar Performance Parts end of the equation; they are being affected by guilt from association. Mopar cannot change the Chrysler end of the deal. They cannot make the dealers sing in tune. They can't make the engine run cleaner and pass emmissions, if the new PCM steps over the line in offering the performance. They shouldn't have to put up with all of our unhapiness with Chrysler.

It is like being a kid and having to eat your vegetables. Chrysler is telling us: "It's good, so shut-up and eat it".

We have 2 choices; eat it or do without and find something elsewhere. I don't anticipate any of us will starve as a result of our decision, but we may have to pay for powertrain repairs.

[Dalite]

quote:Originally posted by Cal Cruzer

Or watch your enthusiast community the supports these cars look elsewhere next time. This is not an old 60's Mopar community. We are buying new cars from you, not rebuilding old cars that you only made a profit on 40 years ago. If you want to sell new cars to us again, give us the support that other manufacturers provide in their aftermarket products.

I think it has come down to that point already. Chrysler has already aleniated most of the GT owners with previous actions. How this issue is resolved will check the decline in customer loyalty or widen the gap.

But, it is Chrysler's call; not Mopar's. Mopar is just providing a service and being forced to play under Chrysler's rules. I fully believe that Mopar would make good any defective part. However, they won't be able to stand behind the engines that their parts attach to. Chrysler makes this the customer's ultimate responsibility, unless the dealer is in a benevolent mood when a warranty situation arises and modifications are in the equation.

Moss-Magneson is the phrase for today.