Latest Stg. I Upgrade Info from MOPAR employee

[Kirby]

I am still reeling from the thought of "Mandatory Anal Re-Breathers", my sides hurt from the laughter.

For UniqueTwin: We wouldn't grouse if we didn't care. The really scary part to worry about is when things get quiet and sales start to drop off.

[Dalite]

UniqTwin,

I understand the basic flow of the warranty situation. I know that the disclaimer sometimes has to be longer than the instructions or product description. It is a shame that it has to be that way, but I do understand. I, personally, do not question the workmanship or quality of the product, nor do I even think about questioning the devotion of your team in developing the goodies you offer. However, when it comes down to crunch time, the writing on the warranty and disclaimers is the ultimate decision maker when it comes to dispute resolution; and they paint a grim picture.

Some of the forum members bought GTs 2 days before incentives were announced, some got rear sway bars, some got the rear sway shaft (after Chrysler introduced their entry to the "Stranger than Fiction Club" with their explanation of why the sway bar that was listed on the window sticker as standard equipment wasn't standard and wasn't included in the equipment). Some have installed the sway bar at their expense. Some have had the dealer install the sway bar after months of protest. Some dealers have been paid for installing the sway bar, some have done it in the interest of customer relations, and on their own dime. Some have installed the deleted horn after a harrowing experience in a traffic squeeze play. Some miss the defrost action of the heated mirrors that the '03 no longer has. Some have replaced outside mirrors that would have pivoted and avoided damage if the swing-away mirror feature hadn't been deleted on the '03 model. Some miss the lights in the rear window switches that weren't included on the silkscreened solder pads of the window switch PCB (Trust me, I hav pics of the printed circuit board).

The point of this mini rant is that the stage has been set by Chrysler, and the show had already began before you came to the stage. Chrysler has set a major precident, that is blatantly obvious to the most casual disinterested observer, and it sends the clear message that they are out to cut costs; at what ever the cost may be.

This puts an unnecessary spotlight on you and your products. Where they should be met with open arms, wild displays of unbridled pleasure and general euphoric acceptance; they are scrutinized with skepticism. And I am one of the worse. For that I apologize, but do so with the partial explanations listed above. Please don't take all of my disillusionment, which is mostly directed at the Chrysler Bean Counting Olympic Team, and feel it is directed at you and your product.


The problem we face as customers/owners is the uncontrollable factors. The main uncontrollable is the dealer. It is his decision and thought process that determines the outcome. There is no standardization of what guides the dealer's thought process. It will only be a matter of time before the dealer dmails each warranty refusal to the network of other dealers and the customer is shot down from the getgo, based on one dealer's decision..

We all do business with 5 star dealers. What is unclear (as pointed out by various forum members in the past) is the figure of merit used to ascertain 5 star status. Is it 5 stars out of 100 possible? Do all the five stars have to shine, or is it OK for 4 to be burnt out? In other words, each usually has a horror story about some adventure with a 5 star dealer. OTOH, many also have a very good relationship. The one thing that is becoming more apparent is that the cost cutting measures are market driven, and we, the customers make up the National Buck Stopping Team.

I am still very happy to see you here, and admire your moxie for hanging' in there and even acknowledging us complainers.


Now for some questions, and possible considerations for the instructions for DIY folks.

Will a Thermostat housing gasket be included in the Kit?

Will the DRBIII scan tool have to used toset the pinion factor, and the will the customer need to make a visit to the dealer; even if they DIY the upgrade?

Address the need for the customer to have the "PIN" number r

[Steve03GT]

WW, it didn't take long for the fat to hit the fire did it Uniq?
Aside from the drivetrain warranty issue, should the "more aggressive exhaust note on deceleration" be acceleration?
Has the top speed limiter been removed or at least raised?

The "off-road use only" disclaimer seems hastily added at the last minute, along with the voiding of the drivetrain-failure warranty, by the legal eagles.
I'm sure after upper mgm't. reviews the verbage, some of the wording will be changed, I hope.I can't imagine D-C selling non-EPA/CARB approved parts on such a large scale - at least they didn't with the Dakota R/T Mopar SBEC's. Further, I suspect D-C would still be held liable on the emissions issue; even with the "off-road" disclaimer.

[dgc333]

Just a bit of info regarding the parts warranty from Mopar Performance. I have Direct Connection / Mopar Performance catalogs all the way back into the 70's. The stuff they have been selling has always come without a warranty. They sell their stuff to racers and as such there is an expectation that it will be broken, that's the reason for no warranty given. That being said they have stood behind their products when it's obvious that it's a defect in material and workmanship.

Since they are not stating that they have a CARB exemption (that's the reason for the off road use only statement) do not expect the car to pass emmission testing. I have a stage one computer from MP for my 89 Shelby Daytona and I have to swap back to the stock computer everytime I go in for emmissions testing. I know some of the MP computers would pass the idle sniff test but mine would not and it does not pass the roller driving cyle test I am subject to now.

Also, since it does not have a CARB exemption technically your dealer can't legally install it. Some may but you will likely find most won't.

Another thing; many of the past MP computers would "disable" functionality that was not needed for "off road use". The most common item in past MP computers was disabling cruise control functionality. So, do not be suprised if you go for one of these that something will not work. The one I have for my shelby Daytona does not operate in closed loop mode below 1500 rpm. This makes for a real stinky idle with the cat working over time.

[earringboy]

...maybe I have prospered way too much in my life and lord knows I am very fortunate to be so independent... The Kentucky State Lottery has been very kind to me!!! I have a garage full of toys and have a different relationship with each of them.... I waited over thirty years to add a Chrysler product in the mix, and waited for the Turbo PT like a kid wanting candy. So far I feel like I was ripped out of the $2500 rebate, found a need for every item that was axed from the '02-'03 model change, had the passenger door glass explode while sitting covered in my garage and had to have a new clutch under 2000 miles.... even before the GT had been driven in the rain!! The clutch replacement was the first time I had a car back to the dealer for warranty work ever!!! Even now I still am very impressed with this GT Turbo that just scratches it's potential in stock form. I have two choices, suck it up....or shut up!!! Well...I'll shut up.....but not before I make the promise that Chrysler has received it's last dime from me and the PT is on it's way out the door!! ....way to many automobile manufacturers supporting a much better performance program than to have the problems and concerns of 25 HP that really is more like 10 HP after factoring in that we were already seeing close to 230 HP on the dyno to start with....

[rockycruiser]

I would concur that the issue is DC's control/lack of control of dealers. When rumors of the Stage upgrades first surfaced, I sent DC an email asking for details/information. They wrote back and said that I should talk to my Dealer Service Mgr. I did this and got no response.

When the website appeared giving details/part #'s, I sent these to my dealer (Lithia Motors, Missoula, MT) and asked again for a price on the installation of a number of items (gauges, springs AND the upgrade). After the customary silence, I followed up and got the rather astounding response that they were not interested in doing ANY of the work; that they would not work on anything that was not factory installed--an astounding display of total disregard for customer service (which, IMHO, is directly correlated with quality of product). And Chrysler has said this is a 5-star dealership.

This is the same dealership which sold me the car and the 7 yr/70K mile extended warranty.

It is one thing to respond to the developing market for performance vehicles (chase the buck); it is another to do so at the expense of the customer ("you'll buy these things, so we'll make them, but that's as far as we commit").

I purchase vehicles fairly frequently. Except for a Jeep Cherokee 15 years ago, this is my first experience with DC. It will be my last. Those familiar with the research will also note that while the satisfied customer will likely tell 4 acquaintances of his/her experience, the disgruntled customer will likely tell 11-15 acquaintances.

[TurboT]

Could it be that the “sluggish GT sales are a reflection of many of the comments presented here? People are out shopping and reading the boards and talking to people. I had a hard time putting down $22k, as it was. You know the old adage “a satisfied customer tells 2 friends, a dis-satisfied customer tells 10 friends”. I’m glad you’re plugged into this group Uniq, but I also don’t pretend to think that that 20, 40 or even 100 Turbo users are going to have DC or Mopar step back and re-think these issues. DC sold 10,563 Cruisers in the month of May alone. Their 2002 revenue was $156,838,000,000. They aren’t going to go back to the drawing book because we don’t buy a $400 upgrade. Look, their proposal for the new Turbo was to strip it down even further, not add to it.
With that being said (Stepping off the soap box now) one of the draws of the Cruiser was that they haven’t just turned out one style and left it at that. You and I are benefactors of this with the Turbo, which I enjoy immensely, everytime I get into the seat. I’m still counted as a satisfied customer.[8)]

[higear4]

In Illinois im sure im going to pass emissions as long as im running at least a cat back exhaust. Once you go to the turbo back you will have problems. I am also not worried about voiding my warranty by adding more fual and an engine managment component. As long as youre not running unsafe boost levels (17+) and dont blow your engine in the process I wouldnt be concerned. this is going to be a nice upgrade for our pts. Im in.

I was looking for more info on the mopar blowoff valve but found this instead. Maybe we need a seperate topic for the void your warranty debate because i realize if i do something stupid and really mess up my engine, I will be responsible.

And whats up with that blow-off valve?? any info?

[Kirby]

Higear 4 is like a lot of happy but not so worldly people that bought their PT because it IS a good design, but making many unfounded assumptions:

1) Since the paper says warranty they have to cover it;
When DC pulls the plug YOU are the Waranty.

2) The bone stock engine is over-engineered to the point that it will never break onder normal use.
This is a NEW engine/transmission/automobile package. Even Porsche and BMW have bone stock cars break due to unforseen weaknesses in design. $hit happens!

3) If anything happens that is not covered, it wont be much.
Engine or transmission failure can run into 1/4 or 1/2 the initial investment you made in your PT.

4) Word of mouth warranty(verbal promises)will be valid when the $hit hits the fan.

Welcome to the world of "Sort of Truths":

Those pants are very slimming - means: you have a spread like Montana.

We really ought to get togeather soon - means: I can't wait to see your backside going out the door.

Don't worry I won't put it all the way in - means: (fill in your own words here)

SHURE WE'LL WARRANT CHRYSLER PARTS IF A CHRYSLER TECHNICIAN INSTALLS THEM - means: At $75 per hour I wonder how much we can soak this guy without totally pissing him off?
If he doesn't know the price can I double the cost of the goods?
If a problem arises we'll tell him that he "abused" the car by pressing on the gas too hard (after all, why would you put in that extra horsepower?)

5) If I love DC they will love me back.
The individuals in DC may care, but believe me when I say that "The Corporation" loves your money. If you die they will not send flowers!

[mike]

I was really looking forward to these staged increases in horsepower. But being in California it looks very much like I'll have to break the law if I want to install them - that's assuming I can find anyone to do the work. Plus I'll also have to waste 67K miles in warranty. [:I]

I waited 3 years for the GT because the power made it a reasonable car to drive, and it can transport our dogs. I suppose I could use the $$$ I would have spent on HP upgrades on PTeazer cosmetics.

What I really should have done was bought the Audi TT I was lusting after all the time!