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Sitting on the fence

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 31 Jul 2003, 12:18 am
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Default Sitting on the fence

Here is my problem with ordering S1 now. My car is running perfect. Great sound, (BTG exhaust)no problems with mechanical issues. My luck, I would get the S1, and suddenly I would start to have a problem. which I don't have now. SOMEONE KICK ME OFF THE FENCE, AND TELL ME WHY. gary[:0]
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 06:57 am
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How about 20 extra horsepower?
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 09:21 am
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Man oh man you are not alone. This is not the first car I have played with, and in the past in the mode of makeing something better, or quicker, something always bites me on the ass. I was ready to order when I read about the S1, but now............ could you move down a little I think I am on a nail.
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 01:29 pm
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The nudge to get many people off the fence is a little support. If you aren't looking for an extra 20 horsepower to take the family wagon down to the local drag strip and thrash it, you are amongst friends.
The largest number of potential Stage 1 buyers are regular folks that are excited about their PT and would enjoy that extra little bump in horses to make their driving just a little more spirited, and to make "their version" of thr PT GT a little more special.

I hope that DC makes a smart move, otherwise they won't see my order. I'll be hearing about how great things are from others who didn't really want a warranty anyway, or have dealers that will back them even when they don't have to.
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 06:38 pm
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keep in mind that the stage 1 mod, is an endall mod from what i've heard. The SRT-4 guys are saying that once installed, the computer will adjust back to stage one levels after installing other mods like boost controllers. They have dyno sheets that show this. If all you want is to bump up to what ever the stage one puts out, and likely leave it at that, it is a great deal.
I personally am choosing not to Stage1, but to use a boost controller, and other bolt ons like cams. The one really good benefit of stage1 is the new injectors....
A stage one with say a 50 shot of nitrous would be an awesome and streetable setup.
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 08:51 pm
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I apaud COP TZR for identifying the difference between the Stage I kit and more open ended modifications. If you will be happy with a milder 20 to 25 hp gain Stage I is your best buy, if on the other hand you want to race, there are MUCH more efficient avenues.
This brings home the point of how ludicrous it is to identify this kit as a racing item. To promote the kit in an "as is", no warranty state is purely a sign that all the homework was not done, either in identifying the market or preparing the product.
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 10:14 pm
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Kirby, isn't that true of all after market items? including Mopar? you take a risk, for more potenital gain. My concern (I think I share with others here) is that it is a risk. While true you may enjoy more power, what in the event by installing the kit, something unrelated to it goes off? Computers scare the hell out of me in general, even more so in my car. I guess I have that nail up my ass again. But If I hear enough of this group talking it up, I will probably go for it. Gary
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 10:48 pm
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Quote:
quote:COP TZER Wrote:
I personally am choosing not to Stage1, but to use a boost controller, and other bolt ons like cams.
Be careful. At least one of the SRT guys took off his boost controller in favor of Stage 1 because it is "1000% more driveable". http://www.srtforums.com/forums/show...5&pagenumber=2

Quote:
quote:Kirby Wrote:
This brings home the point of how ludicrous it is to identify this kit as a racing item. To promote the kit in an "as is", no warranty state is purely a sign that all the homework was not done, either in identifying the market or preparing the product.
Where exactly have you seen Mopar advertise the Stage 1 kit as a "racing item"? Check Mopar.com, they call it a Turbo Upgrade Kit. Hp/Trq graphs are provided which accurately reflect what customers have measured on chassis dynos. They offer a kit, quantify what you'll get, throw in a few wiz-bang features that the other guys can't, and offer it at a competitive price. There's nothing "ludicrous" about it.

So what's your suggestion if Mopar hasn't done their homework and mis-identified the market?
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 10:58 pm
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Turboman...it is absolutely not true about all other aftermarket items. As I have pointed out before, I have driven my mustangs for years with the full support of Ford for heads, cams, intakes etc. However, even mother Daimler warranties their tuner stuff as does TRD, Chevy etc. I am in full agreement with Kirby.
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Old 31 Jul 2003, 11:02 pm
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Other manufacturers are offering and supporting their performance options with warranty; in many cases a seamless one.

As others have pointed out here, the Stage I upgrade is custom tailored to work in a stock vehicle to give maximum gains with minimum intrusion. In a nutshell, it is a bolt-on kit that will supply the most bang for the buck as far as total expense goes. The more outside mods the car has, the less the performance gain potential of Stage I.

Having said that, the concept of a custom, vehicle specific, transmission specific, advertised by manufacturer and promoted by salespeople, available through dealership parts department, Mopar part numbered ------ A very specialized add-on that is engineered, designed, produced and documented to give totally seamless integration.... Having no warranty on parts or construction, infinite shades of gray when trying to isolate the stance of any of the players involved from the sales end to the CAM jockey.

Did I miss anything? Is there any element of the concept of paradox that is missing from the above assessment of the world of Stage I?

This is 100% opposite of concept of reason. A contest to add the most physical weight or bulk from the largest number of outside manufacturers, who have the least specific info about the platform on which their product would be used would warrant the paranoid, scared of one's shadow, doubtful of one's own essence approach that DCX/Mopar/PVO have taken on narrowing down any statement on warranty to a statement that has no semantic absolute value. And they decided to take this fearfull approach to standing behind their own product; a product that has every available co-operation, communication, understanding and support level potential behind it in every step.

What do they know that we don't? Obviously, their "warranty statement" (read - lack of any specifics) clearly shows that all the players involved in the Stage I project wish to distance themselves as far away from the concept of any stated, implied or derived liability. They simply don't want to get any on them.

I personally believe that the Stage I PCM and slightly larger injector combo is the easiest, most cost efficient and least complicated setup - for the performance gained.

When you consider that the current proposed Stage II prototype is getting 260 HP with little more than new programming and still larger injectors, it becomes obvious that the Stage I gains of 20 HP places little additional strain on an engine that can produce nearly 50 additional HP with a more agressive PCM/Injector combo and additional turbo management (mostly electronic).

Why they have decided to let this comedy of errors play out in the introduction of the Stage I upgrade is beyond me. I don't think a single opportunity for further customer alienation was passed by; from the missed delivery dates, lack of dealer support, units that were delivered with no VIN number flashed in them, total confusion in the order system, lack of dealer/seller knowledge, lack of C.A.R.B. approval, competition/off-road use only (competition use will void warranty; no questions asked).... Did I miss anything here?

For every bump in the road in the road from announcement to delivery, the customer becomes a little more aprehensive on the final outcome. This is the essence of the mole-hill to mountain approach to customer dis-satisfaction. It didn't have to be this way.

Despite my vocal posts on this project, since it's availability announcement in May, I have had one on order for an unspecified time; based on delivery dates posted here. If it and the BOV conversion plate aren't onhand at the dealership I ordered from by 1 hour from COB tomorrow (Friday 8/1/03), I will be forced to cancel. I ordered in anticipation of a trip from SE Georgia to East Texas that has been planned as long as I have had my GT. I ordered early enough assure delivery by the slowest ground shipper, based on the latest round of delivery dates posted.

I started to cancel today, after I picked up my G
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