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What's Up ???????

 
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 11:43 am
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Default What's Up ???????

Deafening silence.

The Stage 1 kits may have been shipped without an important part,Thermal protective tips on the injectors.

NO ONE!!! with the Stage 1 kit has come forward to verify yes or no that their injectors had the little clear plastic protectors on the nozzle end.

The folks at Mopar Performance that I can e-mail got messages and have not responded.

The sideliners are minimizing the issue without any input from the Mopar Performance engineers or any knowlege of what they are talking about.

Since there is NO safety net here folks, it behooves us to catch anything wrong EARLY, before it causes problems. If we have to wait for a major incident befor we believe something can go wrong, this is the worst kind of quality control.[xx(]
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 11:52 am
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Take a deep breath....count to 10....and have some patients....the people at Mopar have other things to do and can't just ask "how high" when you say jump....the people on here, they'll answer when they have time...

I’m not trying to be rude, but are you bi-polar? You went from talking about how much the Stage I impressed you the day ya’ll had your “install party” to trashing it again the next day….What is the deal man? I mean come on, I haven’t heard anyone on the SRT forum say a word about the “missing” parts on the injectors…..just give it some time, people will respond/answer, then if you don’t hear anything in a couple days…raise hell…..
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 12:52 pm
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Thanks for the mental health warning.

I also am suprised that this issue has not come up earlier. I'm not as concerned about the DC floks not rushing back as I am about the people with installed kits not sharing their experience (only Bob has responded, and I put those in myself).

This is not my PT, but theirs. If I had the kit installed, with the potential of unwaranteed damage, I would be a little more interested.

My sensitivity to this issue has to do with my other car. It has a definite problem with Heatsoak in the injectors. Granted it is an older car, but the same principals apply. I would like to know why ANY part was deleted from a kit with no warranty. I'm sure those tips should only be a buck or two apiece at most. I would want to know why DC would take the time to put them on O.E.(as cost conscious as they are) but the kit doesn't need them?

I've since researched that the tip protectors also serve to locate the injectors(keeps them from moving around), again one of those things that will affect injector seals later.

I guess it takes a special kind of person to take the leap directly into the face of unknown support....kind of like a mosh pit, you hope that they will catch you, but you know sometimes they don't.

I had to respond to the issue of the install party... It Was Great, Good People, A Good Time, and The Kit works as published. My concerns are that it continue to work, and not cause problems down the road. You see, I drive my vehicles well over 100,000 miles, so I may be looking at different issues than others here. I probably will take a litle more time to wear out my PT.
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 03:03 pm
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Kirby...don't get me wrong..I don't "dislike" you, and value your opinion & input on these issues...sometimes it just seems (and myself included) to get to "emotional" that's all...I am the first person to admit not having any patients...
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 04:16 pm
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Kirby, I don't know. Without trying to sound foolish I trusted DC to insure that the injectors were complete. My old injectors reside in a plastic bag at the shop where we did the upgrade. I'll get a look at them as soon as I can get back to the shop. However I am not gonna pull the new injectors back out until I have good reason to. If there is an issue, and the injectors need to come out, I'll do that then. In the meantime, are these not the injectors used in the 2004 H.O. turbo cruiser? It would be a fairly simple task to see if someone could check the stock of these (if indeed they are the same) Maybe that is a way to attack it as well. I doubt that there will be many stage 1 kits sitting Idle after purchase. If this question had come up a week earlier, My kit would still sitting in the workshop and I could take a look see. Maybe someone with a kit that has not installed it yet could take a look. [:I]
Alan
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 04:27 pm
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Quote:
quote:Originally posted by Kirby

Deafening silence.

The Stage 1 kits may have been shipped without an important part,Thermal protective tips on the injectors.

The folks at Mopar Performance that I can e-mail got messages and have not responded.

The sideliners are minimizing the issue without any input from the Mopar Performance engineers or any knowlege of what they are talking about.
Kirby, you've made anothergood point; however, I suspect if you had taken Diplomacy 101 earlier in life, your blood pressure wouldn't be spiking everytime another issue with MOPAR or D-C comes down the pike. Meaning no disrespect, some people don't appreciate "the in your face attitude" you use and therefore, don't take you seriously or bother to respond -- which is truly a shame since your issues do have merit. Here in TX, I was taught at an early age that honey tastes better to most than salt. Sorry if I've offended you, that is not my intent, just an observation I noticed in the school of Hard Knocks.
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 05:06 pm
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No offense taken here! I tend to bang on the drum a little too loudly for some. I do get frustrated with some folks that take such a casual approach to issues that could have far reaching consequenses. A product with no warranty had better be just right from the get go, or it's worthless.
Now, I suppose that you could install the ECM and only use 1 bolt in stead of 4, or reuse all the old gaskets and just overtorque them, but that doesn't make it right!
As a fixit man, I just can't see doing the job in a hap-hazzard manner. I wouldnt install the kit without new gaskets, or the use of anit-seize on bolts that screw into different metals, and when you just plain forget a whole set of important pieces, well, that's just plain sloppy.

Pulling the plenum to install the tips is a 30 minute job at most, it will require a new gasket though, and it will require you to lower the coolant level by a couple quarts also. It all depends how important it is to do the job correctly now, rather than wait for the consequences and then to be forced into it along with everything else along the way that was screwed up!
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 08:49 pm
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Kby


My install guy is going to take a look and get back to me. He says that you will be able to tell if there is a problem. The problem will manifest itself as a noticable lack of performance. If there is a problem, the cure would be to replace the injectors before its too late. Sooooo, I will save all of the old stuff, and see what he comes up with and also what the DCX girls have to say. The stage one goes in, and if I have to replace injectors every two months before a fix (if there is a problem) comes out so be it. But...... whether or not there is a problem, I feel you did the right thing. All of the dialogue here is good.

BTW

I'm also getting front and rear sway bars installed. Its an early birthday present.

[8D]

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Old 19 Aug 2003, 09:26 pm
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Kirby, why do you insist you know better than the guys and gals that engineer the parts? Do you really think they're all a bunch of idiots that would simply leave critical parts out of a kit because they "forgot"?

You claim no one is listening:
Quote:
quote:Deafening silence.
DODGETWEAKER gave a very plausible explanation that DCX has simply change suppliers from Bosch to Siemens. Why do you chose to ignore that?

Have you studied machine design? If you did it would be clear that a.) The injectors do NOT bottom out in the intake, they are retained in the fuel rail by spring clips. This eliminates your hypothetical conductive heat transfer path. Do you really think that little plastic lip is providing a significant thermal barrier from radiated heat? Did you look closely? The actual spray tips of both injectors are exposed directly to the manifold (as they need to be to inject fuel). b.) The compression of the lower O-rings prevents the injector tip from moving laterally and grounding out or making metal to metal contact.

The reason you can't get the "Thermal Protective Caps" off is because THEY'RE BONDED ON AND AREN'T MEANT TO BE TRANSFERED. (That's not what they are BTW, they should be called "cheap little plastic things that keep the O-ring from pulling out when there's vacuum in the manifold"). If you did manage to get them onto the Siemens injectors they would most likely fall off, run through the engine and melt away in the turbine.

The 2003 injectors are purple and Stage 1's are black. Should we paint them? Did you check to see if the resistance is the same? Did you verify that the spray pattern, droplet size, cone angle and distribution are the same?
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Old 19 Aug 2003, 10:16 pm
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Looks like we have a new DCX cheerleader.

The 2 post rule applies here.
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