mopar performance warranty

[Dalite]

This is probably the reason that the decision was made to "burn" the VIN prior to shipping.

The dealer can apparently initialize the stage I PCM with the proper VIN AFTER it is installed. The emphasis on DIY installation, with the VIN burned in before shipping may have been intentional; to shift the focus from a dealer supplied / dealer installed accessory to a customer aftermarket purchase and either customer install or customer request of the dealership to install an aftermarket part.

At any rate, the disconnect between Mopar Performance and Chrysler sales/service outlets seems to be a planned one.

[Dalite]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by ptgtcb

quote:Originally posted by Dalite

This is probably the reason that the decision was made to "burn" the VIN prior to shipping.

The dealer can apparently initialize the stage I PCM with the proper VIN AFTER it is installed. The emphasis on DIY installation, with the VIN burned in before shipping may have been intentional; to shift the focus from a dealer supplied / dealer installed accessory to a customer aftermarket purchase and either customer install or customer request of the dealership to install an aftermarket part.

At any rate, the disconnect between Mopar Performance and Chrysler sales/service outlets seems to be a planned one.

What if you order the Stage I and do not install it? Is Chrysler going to void your warranty just because you purchased the kit?

No, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, purchase does not flag your info. The VIN is merely to keep the SKIM from crying foul.

Don't you understand that the only reason they need your darn vin is for the security system and the mileage for the odometer.

See above. The SKIM is a part of the overall security system. It is what inter-reacts with the key transponder. That is what I tried to explain in an earlier post.

The dealerships can not,as of yet,program the 2004 pcm's.The vendor who produces the pcm programs it!

Actually, the dealer can write the VIN once the PCM Is installed in the car. The Vendor that MPP is using now to code them is the only place capable of coding the PCM out of the car. At least, that is the way it has been explained before.

Why do you think they are sending new pcm's for the 5200+ misfire problem, because they do not have the software to update the 2004 pcm!

The TSB states it is a hardware issue that affects a certain range of PCMs according to build date and transmission. I believe it will still be the 2003 PCM. The 2004 PCM is used in the Stage I upgrade, as well as 2004 production. According to the dealer I talked with, you are correct concerning their inability to FULLY access the 2004 PCM. They say it will be December before they have the gear to do so. In the meantime, the DRBIII seems adequate to address the 2003 PCM and accomplish mundane tasks (like writing a VIN) on the 2004 PCMs .

They have swiched over and the 2004 pcm is a completely different design ecu. It does not contain block mapping, but uses constant learning algorithmic calculations(more than simplified).

Are you saying that they switched from Speed density (look-up tables) to a sensor based cause and effect (Mass Air Flow) system without changing the engine design to incorporate a Mass Air Flow sensor?

I think is more likely that the 2004 PCM is faster (either from going from 16 to 32 bit processing or increasing clock speed) as well as having expanded memory in both the EEPROM and the available RAM needed to process a larger look-up table for the speed density system that Chrysler uses. Wider calibration ranges create the need for a bigger database to catalog the possible responses. This is what the Speed Density system relies on.

In the near future the dealership will be able to set the vin in your pcm. Most newer vehicles when replacing any ecu needs to be "coded" with the correct vin and milage for the vehicle before it will become operational, it then will communicate with the other ecu's in the vehicle and determine the proper mileage and some certain parameters.

[b]Close, Many of the early problems with bad VIN coding were corrected at the local dealer; provided the PCM was installed. The dealer can't code it off the vehicle, but has been able to do so via the diag link when it is installed.

[spidy134]

Ok people for starters I have been in the Chrysler dial computer have entered my VIN have seen that my waranty and gold plan are still in efect. As for the dealer not being able to enter the VIN into the PCM
that is only half true do any of you work for Chryler I do you cant enter it through the misalaneous options under the engine screen but you can go through the skim module go into the misalaneous screen go into the "PCM replaced"[:0] screen enter the skim PIN # and the skim will automatically transfer the VIN to the PCM along with the secret key data. Granted a lot of dealers dont know how to do this do to lack of experience and or training.

[Dalite]

quote:Originally posted by ptgtcb

Hello Dalite,
These kits are sold as a DYI kit over the counter and through the mail and need the VIN and mileage flashed so they will work.

Nothing new here, but VIN flash errors have been corrected at the dealer level; provided the PCM is installed on the car...

The missfire issue is only a hardware issue because the dealership can not flash the 2004 program into the 2003 pcm, so they issue a new PCM. However, there is a possibility the the pcm has a faulty ground or solder connection causing the problem which would require the pcm replacement and I would believe they would replace it with the 2004 pcm.

I still don't know if it will be a 2004 PCM. Unless I am badly mistaken, the 2004 PCM is accompanied by the 10% over stock injectors in both the 2004 stock setup and in Stage I.

I guess that the programming of the 2004 PCM could be setup to use the stock (2003 model) injectors, so it may be a 2004 PCM.

This would further widen the service gap, as it would sill leave a few months before the dealers had the diag gear to fully access it.

The previous TSB to correct Trouble Codes set in error was an example of 2003 programming.

I am not sure that the 2004 PCM/programming combo could be introduced to the 2003 model without the injectors being upgraded to accept the mixtures set by the 2004 programming.

I never said that DC switched to a MAF sensor system, if they did the stage I pcm would not work on a 2003

My apology. I misinterpreted your reference of removal of block mode operation as a reference to loosing the look-up tables and going with sensor reaction-type mode of operation; similar to the MAF systems. I believe the Speed Density does this at WOT.

The PCM still needs an approximate mileage figure.

Which it can get from the cluster controller at any time. It is highly possible that there could be a verification process in which the initial VIN mileage and the cluster mileage cannot vary more than a certain percentage. However, with the mileage increases while waiting for Stage I orders to arrive, a percentage that high (to not cry foul over the mileage variances) would be a fairly useless security measure.

What part of "conspiracy" and " get over it" do you not understand?

I understand the concept of Conspiracy fairly well. There can't be a Conspiracy when the facts have been laid on the table for all to see.

As far as the "get over it" - Well, let me say that at first I was Amazed, now I am merely Amused. I stop letting others tell me how to think a few decades ago. It allows you to increase your cognitive skills, once you make the decision to think for yourself.

I appologize to everyone else for keeping this going, ptgtcb

Your choice.

[Dalite]

I have had good time with the banter in this thread; perhaps too much of a good time. I apologize for letting my remarks get personal.

I found this earlier quote from ptgtcb to be completely true:

quote:They have swiched over and the 2004 pcm is a completely different design ecu. It does not contain block mapping, but uses constant learning algorithmic calculations(more than simplified).

He an I have sent some PMs back and forth. He was the better of us two, in that he initiated the communication first. I appreciate the insight offered by others, and may sometimes be a little too agressive in what I think I understand on subjects where full info is hard to find.

It looks like there will be a departure from my understanding of "look-up" table operation that has been the basis of speed and density systems before. I hope to be able to get enough info (from somewhere) to be able to understand what Chrysler is doing with the NGC PCMs, so I will be able to get a firmer grasp on how it responds to changes from the stock configuration; either aftermatket or MPP produced.

Living and learning.....