Where's The Beef? Stage II only 250 HP for PT?

[Ian-PT-GT]

Ater all this stuff that I wrote My point is:

If you are already getting the tires to free wheel, then, when you get more torque you may see even less acceleration than previously...

HP helps you with the top speed, once you are in third, torque is minimal and HP takes over..

Ian

[dtbrks]

Agreed. I can't floor my PT in first anymore, nor can I floor it when I shift into second. My tires just spin and the car is not controllable unless I let off the gas.

quote:Originally posted by Ian-PT-GT

Ater all this stuff that I wrote My point is:

If you are already getting the tires to free wheel, then, when you get more torque you may see even less acceleration than previously...

HP helps you with the top speed, once you are in third, torque is minimal and HP takes over..

Ian

[MEXICANPT]

How many of you are spinning your wheels on 2nd and 3rd?

The gear I use the less is 1st.

[dtbrks]

I can easily spin my tires going into second gear (petal on the floor of course).

quote:Originally posted by MEXICANPT

How many of you are spinning your wheels on 2nd and 3rd?

The gear I use the less is 1st.

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by dtbrks

You have some good points, however, most people who already have stage 1 (myself included) would only gain 15HP from 235 to 250. All that for, lets assume cost on most things, $875 for stage 2 (doubt we will see that anytime soon), $400 for installation at the dealer and $350 for the exhaust (plus installation). Add it up: $1625 for 15HP and no TOYS. Am I missing something? Doesn't that seem expensive? Compared it to stage 1, which I got for $325, for the same RELATIVE hp increase.

As for the actual HP increase, well, that's another story. Conflicting data isn't helpful. Now, if I were going to release an upgrade to a turbo, I would make sure all the work is done for a smooth release to the public. This hasn't been done, for whatever reasons. All info, specs, p/n's, pricing and delivery are out for the SRT4, but why not the PT? [xx(] I don't know.

Ok, first let me say that for $1K (less for me because my dad gets an employee discount) I am not terribly interested in S2. Coupled with my new daughter and my wife leaving work, it doesn't appear to be on the menu anytime soon. And I think the price is a little high.

BUT, there are a few stupid things people are doing here, and you are doing one of them. What you're doing is comparing the cost of stage 1 without installation to some estimated price of stage 2 WITH installation. That's not fair, and it's pretty dumb. If you can install S1, you can do S2. The MAP sensor they will be replacing sits right on the top of the intake manifold by your plugs...if you have changed your plugs, you have probably had to take that thing off. I don't know where the TIP sensor is exactly, but I imagine all but the tamest of us could probably get at that too. So why get all nuts about install cost?

Second, people are saying that you are being overcharged for a couple of $25 sensors. I don't know where you guys buy your sensors, but when I broke my MAP sensor taking out the plugs, the dealership charge for the part was ~50 bucks. Assuming the TIP sensor is close to the same price, people are underguessing the cost of those sensors by about 50%

So, if we take that into account, the $400 retail price for S1, add the $100 for the 2 extra sensors, that gives $500. But wait, there's another assumption everyone is making, and that is that programming the PCM and tuning it for these new HP levels took only as much programming time as the original stage 1. Anyone who has ever done tuning on a car, though, knows that this isn't the case. As you add more HP and more torque by increasing boost and fuel, you invariably have to tune the hell out of a car to get it to run optimally at these new levels, and the more power you are adding, the more you have to tune and tweak. And programmers aren't cheap!

All of this doesn't justify everything that has been done to our cars' computers in terms of locking it down, but it still puts the pricing in a little better perspective.

And yes, people who drop 250 bucks for an intake pipe and filter that MAYBE will add a few HP under the right circumstances, if you keep resetting the computer, etc etc, have no real business saying this upgrade is too expensive. IMO, anyway.

[brngrhd]

i will wait untill it comes out then i will make up my mind. it is alot of money. i think i need it if i want to run more than 18 psi (2bar map), and i need the wastegate which i know i can get elseware. and if you are adding more air you need more fuel so i'm goimg to need the injectors. so.......... if you want to make more power you will need s2, and other things like exhaust. i do agree it is spendy for the hp but i'm looking at what i can do with it.

[ptgtcb]

Hey crazyjoe! you forgot the WGA $100/$150?

[ptgtcb]

quote:Originally posted by brngrhd

i do agree it is spendy for the hp but i'm looking at what i can do with it.

[|)]

[blueberrygt]

Not mention the fuel injectors...New technology, with a high impedence... Those are worth at least $100 a piece...

There's another $400...

[dtbrks]

Hey jackass.. your the reason why I never post on these pages.. Don't call me stupid, don't call me dumb. It's my OPINION, you can have your own. Do I call people stupid? Dumb? No, i stated my opinion and then said it was up to you to decide.

PS- I never said I was going to try and get S2 Power with my S1. If your going to quote someone's message, make sure you do it right. I was comparing cost of the two stages and the HP gains, not saying I was going to do this, or that, blah, blah, blah..

you accomplished your goal, I am done posting on this board.

[quote]quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

quote:Originally posted by dtbrks

You have some good points, however, most people who already have stage 1 (myself included) would only gain 15HP from 235 to 250. All that for, lets assume cost on most things, $875 for stage 2 (doubt we will see that anytime soon), $400 for installation at the dealer and $350 for the exhaust (plus installation). Add it up: $1625 for 15HP and no TOYS. Am I missing something? Doesn't that seem expensive? Compared it to stage 1, which I got for $325, for the same RELATIVE hp increase.

As for the actual HP increase, well, that's another story. Conflicting data isn't helpful. Now, if I were going to release an upgrade to a turbo, I would make sure all the work is done for a smooth release to the public. This hasn't been done, for whatever reasons. All info, specs, p/n's, pricing and delivery are out for the SRT4, but why not the PT? [xx(] I don't know.

Ok, first let me say that for $1K (less for me because my dad gets an employee discount) I am not terribly interested in S2. Coupled with my new daughter and my wife leaving work, it doesn't appear to be on the menu anytime soon. And I think the price is a little high.

BUT, there are a few stupid things people are doing here, and you are doing one of them. What you're doing is comparing the cost of stage 1 without installation to some estimated price of stage 2 WITH installation. That's not fair, and it's pretty dumb. If you can install S1, you can do S2. The MAP sensor they will be replacing sits right on the top of the intake manifold by your plugs...if you have changed your plugs, you have probably had to take that thing off. I don't know where the TIP sensor is exactly, but I imagine all but the tamest of us could probably get at that too. So why get all nuts about install cost?

Second, people are saying that you are being overcharged for a couple of $25 sensors. I don't know where you guys buy your sensors, but when I broke my MAP sensor taking out the plugs, the dealership charge for the part was ~50 bucks. Assuming the TIP sensor is close to the same price, people are underguessing the cost of those sensors by about 50%

So, if we take that into account, the $400 retail price for S1, add the $100 for the 2 extra sensors, that gives $500. But wait, there's another assumption everyone is making, and that is that programming the PCM and tuning it for these new HP levels took only as much programming time as the original stage 1. Anyone who has ever done tuning on a car, though, knows that this isn't the case. As you add more HP and more torque by increasing boost and fuel, you invariably have to tune the hell out of a car to get it to run optimally at these new levels, and the more power you are adding, the more you have to tune and tweak. And programmers aren't cheap!

All of this doesn't justify everything that has been done to our cars' computers in terms of locking it down, but it still puts the pricing in a little better perspective.

And yes, people who drop 250 bucks for an intake pipe and filter that MAYBE will add a few HP under the right circumstances, if you