Where's The Beef? Stage II only 250 HP for PT?

[dtbrks]

Also, try a more diplimated approach next time, for instance, Dude, I think you forgot to add installation for stage 1, etc. Then wait for my response. Flying off the handle and saying crap like that is uncalled for and I am totally pissed. I asked people to "check my work", I am ok with critisim, not being called names..

quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

Ok, first let me say that for $1K (less for me because my dad gets an employee discount) I am not terribly interested in S2. Coupled with my new daughter and my wife leaving work, it doesn't appear to be on the menu anytime soon. And I think the price is a little high.

BUT, there are a few stupid things people are doing here, and you are doing one of them. What you're doing is comparing the cost of stage 1 without installation to some estimated price of stage 2 WITH installation. That's not fair, and it's pretty dumb. If you can install S1, you can do S2. The MAP sensor they will be replacing sits right on the top of the intake manifold by your plugs...if you have changed your plugs, you have probably had to take that thing off. I don't know where the TIP sensor is exactly, but I imagine all but the tamest of us could probably get at that too. So why get all nuts about install cost?

Second, people are saying that you are being overcharged for a couple of $25 sensors. I don't know where you guys buy your sensors, but when I broke my MAP sensor taking out the plugs, the dealership charge for the part was ~50 bucks. Assuming the TIP sensor is close to the same price, people are underguessing the cost of those sensors by about 50%

So, if we take that into account, the $400 retail price for S1, add the $100 for the 2 extra sensors, that gives $500. But wait, there's another assumption everyone is making, and that is that programming the PCM and tuning it for these new HP levels took only as much programming time as the original stage 1. Anyone who has ever done tuning on a car, though, knows that this isn't the case. As you add more HP and more torque by increasing boost and fuel, you invariably have to tune the hell out of a car to get it to run optimally at these new levels, and the more power you are adding, the more you have to tune and tweak. And programmers aren't cheap!

All of this doesn't justify everything that has been done to our cars' computers in terms of locking it down, but it still puts the pricing in a little better perspective.

And yes, people who drop 250 bucks for an intake pipe and filter that MAYBE will add a few HP under the right circumstances, if you keep resetting the computer, etc etc, have no real business saying this upgrade is too expensive. IMO, anyway.

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by dtbrks

Hey jackass.. your the reason why I never post on these pages.. Don't call me stupid, don't call me dumb. It's my OPINION, you can have your own. Do I call people stupid? Dumb? No, i stated my opinion and then said it was up to you to decide.

PS- I never said I was going to try and get S2 Power with my S1. If your going to quote someone's message, make sure you do it right. I was comparing cost of the two stages and the HP gains, not saying I was going to do this, or that, blah, blah, blah..

you accomplished your goal, I am done posting on this board.

I didn't call you stupid. I said people are saying some stupid things. Notice I wasn't singling you out, but I did want to use part of your post as an example.

I never said you were going to try to get S2 power out of stage1, so you're going to need to do your own quote checking before you respond.

Lighten up. If someone calls you on something silly you said, gulp down thre pride and say "oops." Thats a skill you are going to need throughout your life, beleive me. The people who don't develop it are the ones that everyone else thinks of as jerks who never admit they are wrong.

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by dtbrks

Also, try a more diplimated approach next time, for instance, Dude, I think you forgot to add installation for stage 1, etc. Then wait for my response. Flying off the handle and saying crap like that is uncalled for and I am totally pissed. I asked people to "check my work", I am ok with critisim, not being called names..

OK, I'll apologize for not being more diplomatic. Maybe those folks who check your work could use a couple of spelling checkers? (j/k) I did not mean to hurt your feelings, however, consider your ranting about cost and price etc etc....how diplomatic is that?

I was not flying off the handle...and I don't have time anymore to post a 2 word response and wait for someone else to respond and then type another response. I complete my thoughts as well as I can in one post and then I am done with it.

[dtbrks]

Whatever. I have no problems with people correcting me, I just have a problem with the manner in which you did it. You did quote my post, even if you didn't mean to use the entire thing as an example.

I have been around long enough, don't treat me like a kid and give me life advise. I have been in engineering for 12 years and have had plenty of interaction with people critiquing my work. If you had done it better, this wouldn't have been a big deal. Maybe you should be the one who needs to learn not to use phrases such as dumb and stupid so easily.

PS- let's end this(you can have one more response) and move on. In my opinion, you attacked me, I just attacked back. Again, MY opinion.

quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

I didn't call you stupid. I said people are saying some stupid things. Notice I wasn't singling you out, but I did want to use part of your post as an example.

I never said you were going to try to get S2 power out of stage1, so you're going to need to do your own quote checking before you respond.

Lighten up. If someone calls you on something silly you said, gulp down thre pride and say "oops." Thats a skill you are going to need throughout your life, beleive me. The people who don't develop it are the ones that everyone else thinks of as jerks who never admit they are wrong.

[dtbrks]

Fair enough.. and yes, I think this board could use a spell checker.

When was i ranting about price? Really, I want to know, because honestly, I didn't think I personally was ranting.

quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

OK, I'll apologize for not being more diplomatic. Maybe those folks who check your work could use a couple of spelling checkers? (j/k) I did not mean to hurt your feelings, however, consider your ranting about cost and price etc etc....how diplomatic is that?

I was not flying off the handle...and I don't have time anymore to post a 2 word response and wait for someone else to respond and then type another response. I complete my thoughts as well as I can in one post and then I am done with it.

[PianT]

"I think this board could use a spell checker."

If you use IE try this add on, it works great and is free!

www.iespell.com

It will check the spelling in the active window when you reply or create a thread.

[dtbrks]

Nice, thanks for the link.
BTW, I guess I am still posting. I must live up to my promise and stop. []

quote:Originally posted by PianT

"I think this board could use a spell checker."

If you use IE try this add on, it works great and is free!

www.iespell.com

It will check the spelling in the active window when you reply or create a thread.

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by dtbrks


Whatever. I have no problems with people correcting me, I just have a problem with the manner in which you did it. You did quote my post, even if you didn't mean to use the entire thing as an example.

I have been around long enough, don't treat me like a kid and give me life advise. I have been in engineering for 12 years and have had plenty of interaction with people critiquing my work. If you had done it better, this wouldn't have been a big deal. Maybe you should be the one who needs to learn not to use phrases such as dumb and stupid so easily.

PS- let's end this(you can have one more response) and move on. In my opinion, you attacked me, I just attacked back. Again, MY opinion.

I am all for ending it. Here is you complaining about price:

quote:
...most people who already have stage 1 (myself included) would only gain 15HP from 235 to 250. All that for, lets assume cost on most things, $875 for stage 2 (doubt we will see that anytime soon), $400 for installation at the dealer and $350 for the exhaust (plus installation). Add it up: $1625 for 15HP and no TOYS. Am I missing something? Doesn't that seem expensive?

It's always been my opinion that if you'd like to be treated like an adult, you need to act like one. I know some pretty immature 30 year olds and 40 year olds who could use some doses of "life advice." The assumption that because you have been around for X amount of years you know enough about life is wrong. I have been alive for over 30 years now and I still learn stuff about life.

I am not interested in a war with you, nor in hurting your feelings or chasing you or anyone else from this board. I am interested in coming on here and sharing my opinion. If everyone would take a few moments to think and post thoughfully and rationally, we wouldn't have half a dozen threads about how awful the price is for stage 2. people might complain that there is no stage 1 rebate, and they might complain about other aspects of it, but for what it is, the cost is not that out of line.

[dtbrks]

Enough with the personal stuff. Enough of "act like an adult" ****. You don't know me and I don't know you. No more giving life advise. My feeling are not hurt, I am just pissed because you act like you know me. Don't. Let's move on.

Back to the subject. Your opinion is that the cost is fine. Your OPINION. I don't know how many times I have to say it, it RELATIVE. I think differently and it's ok. Your quote: "people might complain that there is no stage 1 rebate, and they might complain about other aspects of it, but for what it is, the cost is not that out of line". Now, to me, it's out of line and I have every right to say that. You can agree or not, that's your or anyones option.

Go to powerchipgroup.com. They have a stupid chip for the Turbo cruiser for $499. This chip will make 245HP and 278 Torque on the STOCK PCM. Now that is cost effective. I was thining about sending them my old PCM or seeing if they could do something with the stage 1 PCM to get more HP that stage 2 without the exhaust.

Now, we can continue to go back and forth, or just agree to disagree.

What you feel is cost effictive, I feel isn't.

quote:Originally posted by crazyjoe

I am all for ending it. Here is you complaining about price:

It's always been my opinion that if you'd like to be treated like an adult, you need to act like one. I know some pretty immature 30 year olds and 40 year olds who could use some doses of "life advice." The assumption that because you have been around for X amount of years you know enough about life is wrong. I have been alive for over 30 years now and I still learn stuff about life.

I am not interested in a war with you, nor in hurting your feelings or chasing you or anyone else from this board. I am interested in coming on here and sharing my opinion. If everyone would take a few moments to think and post thoughfully and rationally, we wouldn't have half a dozen threads about how awful the price is for stage 2. people might complain that there is no stage 1 rebate, and they might complain about other aspects of it, but for what it is, the cost is not that out of line.

[crazyjoe]

quote:Originally posted by dtbrks

Enough with the personal stuff. Enough of "act like an adult" ****. You don't know me and I don't know you. No more giving life advise. My feeling are not hurt, I am just pissed because you act like you know me. Don't. Let's move on.

That's just it, dude. I am acting like I DON'T know you. Using your comments as the only way to tell what you are like is how I have come to my conclusions. If I knew you I might be nicer, because I might understand where you were coming from.

quote:
Back to the subject. Your opinion is that the cost is fine. Your OPINION. I don't know how many times I have to say it, it RELATIVE. I think differently and it's ok. Your quote: "people might complain that there is no stage 1 rebate, and they might complain about other aspects of it, but for what it is, the cost is not that out of line". Now, to me, it's out of line and I have every right to say that. You can agree or not, that's your or anyones option.

Go to powerchipgroup.com. They have a stupid chip for the Turbo cruiser for $499. This chip will make 245HP and 278 Torque on the STOCK PCM. Now that is cost effective. I was thining about sending them my old PCM or seeing if they could do something with the stage 1 PCM to get more HP that stage 2 without the exhaust.

That's only 10 more HP than you get with stage 1. And you want to pay 500 bucks for it. And I don't know those guys or how good they are with tuning and testing and making sure they aren't going to underfuel my car. I at least have SOME faith in the PVO/SRT guys.

And it isn't a STOCK PCM once you modify it with their chip. Good luck getting dealer updates to that thing.

And be careful...calling their chip stupid....not very diplomatic.

quote:
Now, we can continue to go back and forth, or just agree to disagree.

What you feel is cost effictive, I feel isn't.

I very much prefer to point out the mistakes and assumptions of others so people don't begin relying on them as facts.