Where's The Beef? Stage II only 250 HP for PT?

[Mean Green]

quote:Originally posted by 3BarBoost

TurboG told me today that the MOPAR website is screwed up this week (evidently some garbled communication with the web designers). Please ignore all the new erroneous data put up Monday the 23rd. Should have been fixed by today...

Now when you click on Stage 2 it takes you to Stage 1 specs [:I]

[THier]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by macster

But in all honesty the bottom line for me is that I want it, cause I want it, and thats all the reason I need.

macster

Sure Mac its all about ME ME ME, This world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!!![8)][|)][:0][^][?]
Tom

[Ian-PT-GT]

I will explain a little bit more about my post.

Some people want light to light acceleration, some want 1/4 mile times some want mid RPM punch, and some want top speed.

Light to light acceleration and 1/4 mile settup is essentially the same. You want the maximum grip of the suspension and tires because you are going from a stand still. The main force here is torque.

Mid RPM punch is used for passing and getting out of trouble. Here is crucial that 3500 RPM Torque.

For Top speed and that top gear acceleration the main force is Horsepower.

Almost all of us want the total package; Acceleration, mid RPM torque, high HP for increased top speed.

Many of you know I am Old School racing.
In the Carb world you have to know what you want the engine to be doing before you build it. That is why you see the manifolds rated for Idle to 5000 RPM, 2500 to 7000. The same goes with Camshafts, Carbs, Exhausts... Most systems today are done for "Peak HP" at the top RPMs. I read all the "Sport Compact Performance" Magazines and they are all talking about Top HP in a Dyno for ammusement... no strip or street Performance.

A friend of mine has a 780 HP Supra, that is amazing in the dyno, it has so much power, but at the track it makes less than optimal ETs...
11.5 at the 1/4 mile but the speed at the mark (130MPH) indicates it should be at the low 10 sec world... what is the problem??? the tires are slipping in the first three gears(six speed Manual).

The Mopar kits are a compromise of all this features. the problem is that it all depends of your driving needs.

My example: I live in a 100 X 35 mile island with more trafic lights than anywhere in the states. My needs are acceleration and mid RPM torque with some areas where i can acceletate to more than legal speeds.

I have a few mods in my engine bay to include Stage 1 but I have slowed down the HP and Torque pursuit because the drivetrain and the tires are not holding the power to the ground.


My point, If you want more power, no matter which way you achive it, you need to pay attention to Drivetrain, Suspension and Tires to get the best out if it.

"Power is useless if it cannot be applied to the ground propperly"

Ian

[LAF]

Ian,

Well said. I am old school too. I too agree suspension, tyranny, and application of the power to the pavement, are the week links. I get scared any time I read about anyone pulling or having problems with axels. TThrift is working on the mounts and wonder about the previously mentioned transmission mount also, that might help, but there is a cost in ride comfort with all stiffer mounts. A lot of mods are like that. Upsizing wheels, lower profile, harder ride, same with lowering too low (I know is there such a thing to some of you guys and gals?) harsher ride has to be .Exhaust open it up, your going to hear it. Intake wide open you are going to hear it.

I have to say that this is my daily driver next to the 03 Sportster. I have to a have dependable every day car. Is enough enough? I am done after my ATP down with cat! I think I have done all that I can mechanically to the basic car, enhanced it to perform at the best level of Stage I it is capable of, and still retained reliability. Yes I want new disks and pads, when they go I will spring for the 500.00 it cost to address all four corners, may even go braided while I am there. Yes would like to have 18" X 8" rims, might someday, but I chose Dunlop M4'S and some aluminum silver 16" rims for winter here in PA. , still a 700.00 investment! Point is as you say we all have very different needs and wants out of our cars. It is just basic car or bike, to get the best out of it you have to always change the major components that you mentioned, I have always done rims, exhaust, brakes, and strut/shock, ignition, intake replacements on any car or bike I have had. Part is CARB regs and in part cost. Ya just got to learn to make the stuff work that you want, and KNOW what ya want.

[macster]

[quote]quote:Originally posted by THier

quote:Originally posted by macster

Sure Mac its all about ME ME ME, This world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around ME ME ME ME!!!!!!!!![8)][|)][:0][^][?]
Tom

Dang! It doesn't??? You must of just talked to that kid in the 5.0 mustang, who left me at the light today by a car and a half. But when he looked back I was right beside his door and pulling ahead of him. The cost $$$$$. The look, "PRICELESS!" [8)]

macster

[98 Neon Driver]

Here's the info on S2:

Now for the information on stage 2 for those that arent familiar with the unit ..




* Optional Mopar Performance Cat-Back Exhaust System (P4510461) required to achieve these power ratings.





Stage 2 PCM
682 cc/min Fuel Injectors
Wastegate Actuator
3.0 bar MAP Sensor
3.0 bar TIP Sensor






* Turbo Toys are an optional feature for this kit
Turbo Intercooler Sprayer- Wetter is much better. Four fine mist water spray nozzles attached to the front mounted intercooler are engaged by the switch on the instrument panel. The two-mode switch can be set to Auto or Manual. Auto uses an algorithm in the PCM to optimize sprayer performance. The PCM monitors vehicle speed, ambient temperature, air charge temperature, and throttle position to determine when extra cooling is needed. Manual mode is activated when the switch is held down. The result is a constant spray of water whenever the driver feels like sending chills through the intercooler or just plain showing off. Both modes increase the efficiency of the intercooler and reduce charge air temperature, resulting in increased engine performance. It's hard to stay dry with this toy at your fingertips Â… what could be more fun?! Kit includes: Switch, bezel, spray nozzles, mounting hardware, hoses, wiring, pump, software / calibration included in Stage 2 PCM, and I-Sheets.
High-Octane Fuel Switch- Octane in your veins. Fill the tank with 100 octane-unleaded fuel, hit the switch on the IP, and discover instant torque and power gains. The PCM will increase spark advance and adjust the fueling to take full advantage of 100-octane fuel. The PCM will also protect the engine from improper octane by monitoring the knock sensor and disabling the high-octane feature if damaging knock is detected. More power delivered safely, Proving once again that Mopar is not your average tuner company. Kit includes: Switch, bezel, wiring, software / calibration included in Stage 2 PCM, and I-Sheets.
Dial-A-Boost Switch- Lean or mean. Sometimes tire-ripping torque may not be optimal, especially in poor weather conditions or when seeking higher gas mileage. Lower the turbo boost pressure when desired by adjusting the 4-position thumb wheel on the IP. Spin it back up to higher boost when you gotta fly! Kit includes: Switch, bezel, wiring, software / calibration included in Stage 2 PCM, and I-Sheets.

• Increased WOT and part throttle boost. To develop additional peak power and peak torque for the Stage 2 package, the boost was increased for wide-open throttle (WOT) conditions. The boost was also raised for part throttle conditions to enhance the drivability

• Improved turbo response. The Stage 2 turbo wastegate control was retuned for better turbo response. Not only will the Stage 2 deliver more torque and power, it will also deliver it faster.

• Boost hold feature during WOT shifts. Keep the pedal to the metal, blip the clutch, and grab the next gear. Do it fast enough before the redline, and your reward will be a zero-lag, constant boost shift.

• Enhanced first gear boost schedule. The maximum boost in first gear is increased to deliver more torque and power to the road for a higher performance launch.

• More aggressive exhaust note during deceleration. More pops, snaps, and burbles during closed throttle de-celerations and between shifts.

• Optimized calibration for the Mopar Performance Blow-Off Valve. (Sold separately). The Stage 2 kit has improved the functionality, and the audible performance of the integrated re-circulation valve with the BOV conversion kit in mind.

• Increased Rev Limit. The Stage 2 calibration increases the engine redline to 6500 RPM from 6200 RPM. Stage 2 Turbo Upgrade Kit Performance.

Stage 2 Turbo Upgrade Kit Contents and Power Ratings Re-Cap


265 hp @ 5200 rpm
280 ft-lbs @ 3600-4800 rpm
Stage 2 PCM with toys
Block-off Connector for PCM
682 cc/min Fuel Injectors
Wastegate Actuator
3.0 bar MAP Sensor
3.0 bar TIP Sensor

[madgray]

When I am checking out a new mod for a car, I try to focus on the improvement it gives per dollar of cost. If it's an incremental mod, like adding an exhaust, I use the incremental torque or hp increase. If it's not, like adding an S2, I try to compare to stock rating because S2 is NOT an incremental over S1, it's a replacement.

Here is a sampling of some stuff I have done in the past -

2001PT Cruiser blower = $4000/70hp = $57/hp
1996Miata StageIIITurbo = $3200/67hp = $48/hp
2000Viper Corsa3" Exhau = $1600/15hp = $107/hp
2000Viper VEC1 Air/Fuel = $400/10hp = $40/hp
2000Viper Smoothies/K&N = $80/10hp = $8/hp
2003PT Cruiser S1 = $400/20hp = $20/hp

2003PT Cruiser S2+Exhau = $1500/35hp = $43/hp ????

Other things to consider are the way the extra power is supplied throughout the rev range and the reliability. Some mods tend to affect peak hp while others fatten up the torque curve throughout the rev range. I have also found that the expensive forced induction mods are usually not as robust or drivable as ECU type mods.

So, if you already have a stage1, you made the same choice I did: You wanted the extra power and thought you might upgrade to a S2 when available. I will probably make the upgrage.

[ptgtcb]

Ok, that is for the srt-4, so now what is it for the PT GT?

[macster]

quote:Originally posted by ptgtcb

Ok, that is for the srt-4, so now what is it for the PT GT?

PTCB

Its 265HP and 280ftlbs of torque for the GT also, its always been that.

macster

[Ian-PT-GT]

quote:Originally posted by macster

Its 265HP and 280ftlbs of torque for the GT also, its always been that.

macster

What keeps cracking me up is, if we are going to make the same HP without the toys as the SRT kit with the toys, then why do we need them???

IMHO, I think the 250 HP is the correct one for the PT, with out toys.

It sound strange to make a kit with toys to "Improve performance" and get the same rating as the kit without them...[:I]

Look at the S1 nubers and you will see the same trend... We got short changed also when it came out compared to the SRT, and payed more If it was an auto-stick...

Just Two Cents.

Ian