3BarBoost, You said you could help us w/S2 Mods...

[hyracer]

A few months back you had mentioned you could talk us through adapting the S2 w/Toys from the SRT4 to our GT's if Mopar wasn't going to release that version to us.
A few of us may want to go that way and since S2 is not upgradable (you have to buy the correct computer to work the Toys)we need to make that decision upfront. It looks like we will need at least 3 things:

1. We will need the correct wastegate actuator for the PT Turbo (which means Mopar will need to make that available seperately or connect us directly to the Mfg. that makes the wastegate)

2. We will need a wiring diagram showing us where to make the proper connections in our wiring harnesses. Or a detailed explanation of what colored wires need to be spliced in a paticular location.

3. What is the "fix" to get our A/C working again after the conversion.

My understanding of all this is we would be able to adapt the SRT4 S2
with Toys (my main interest is the "race fuel switch")to the PT Turbo 5 spd. cars but not to the automatic versions since the SRT4's do not come with auto trannys.

Your help on this forum is greatly appreciated [8D]

Deen

[TripleJackInGA]

Ditto to the Race Gas Timing Advance, and the Dial-A-Boost, but I want it to work on my Slushbox A/S.

If that don't go as planned, I may just go with a Stage 1 Kit and some aftermarket goodies.I talked to a guy at turbochargers.com who says they have a few customers with PTs and SRT-4s right at 300 or better with just Stage 1, one of their WGAs, and a turbo upgrade, without any CEL.Of course by the time I install it, it's about the same as Stage 2 in price, if not more, but it's another option I'm keeping open.

[THier]

How are you going to get DC to send S2 w/toys to you, when they see the VIN they will know it is a PT[xx(]
Tom

[3BarBoost]

quote:Originally posted by hyracer

A few months back you had mentioned you could talk us through adapting the S2 w/Toys from the SRT4 to our GT's if Mopar wasn't going to release that version to us.
A few of us may want to go that way and since S2 is not upgradable (you have to buy the correct computer to work the Toys)we need to make that decision upfront. It looks like we will need at least 3 things:

1. We will need the correct wastegate actuator for the PT Turbo (which means Mopar will need to make that available seperately or connect us directly to the Mfg. that makes the wastegate)

2. We will need a wiring diagram showing us where to make the proper connections in our wiring harnesses. Or a detailed explanation of what colored wires need to be spliced in a paticular location.

3. What is the "fix" to get our A/C working again after the conversion.

My understanding of all this is we would be able to adapt the SRT4 S2
with Toys (my main interest is the "race fuel switch")to the PT Turbo 5 spd. cars but not to the automatic versions since the SRT4's do not come with auto trannys.

Your help on this forum is greatly appreciated [8D]

Deen

First of all, I think this exercise will be unnecessary - but I've been wrong before. Second of all, my offer really was to offer advice to adapt the Stage 3 parts into a Stage 2 PT, since a lot of it is already there. Finally, getting a SRT controller to work in a PT is going to lose you a few things besides AC and the cooling fans. I'm not even sure what else is different electronically, you might lose your gauges for example. Somebody with some cash to burn might order a SRT Stage 1 kit and try it (DO NOT try to hammer it, just warm it up and try the AC), don't think they'll care that the VIN is wrong...

1. The SRT and PT have exactly the same wastegate actuator, so the S2 parts will be identical. Just because RAGE or AGP couldn't get it to work...

2. The SRT turbo toys instructions and a PT wiring diagram should be sufficient to figure it out. I am not sure you need anything fancy to splice in, as the Toys harness is mostly self-contained.

3. No idea what is different between 03 and 04 AC systems, but whatever changed required something different in the controller. Somebody who knows would have to help kludge in a bypass.

The SRT calibration is for physically different intake manifolds and exhaust systems, so it will not work as well in a PT even if you get past all of the above. It might knock in some places, be rich in others, probably have problems making the boost smooth. Nobody has tried. So if you do, and it blows up - I told you so.

I am working TurboG to get a statement about S2 out there, but nothing yet.[:I]

[Dalite]

Wouldn't it be easier to convert back to OBD-I and regain control of the engine, fuel management, turbo and ignition system?

This seems to be the first step taken at a lot of speed shops (in other vehicles - to bypass problems introduced with OBD II).. I realize that this is slightly outside the law, but no more so than Stage I is at present (ever heard of being "kinda pregnant"?).

Personally, I wouldn't take the risk, but at least you would be able to start with a known subset and apply proven changes.

As it is now, all we can do is wire it up, put our fingers in our ears and twist it's tail.

Not exactly a scientific approach, but when you are workinmg with a proprietary system, running top secret firmware (not even entrusted to the dealers who service and maintain warranty), through an ever-evolving diagnostic connector topology... well, you get the drift......

Back to the subject, I don't know if the SKIM will allow a VIN mismatch to prevail. According to the Service Manual (and past experiences with early Stage I VIN SNAFUs), after 3 attempts the SKIM puts the PCM to "sleep". Each attempt would result in 20 seconds of running time before ASD. However, having mentioned that, with the hidden SKIM error code that comes stock with Stage I, maybe this has been addressed in firmware to disable this security feature....

I had theorized that the firmware had evolved past the available memory of the PCM, and some the SKIM routines had been removed to allow needed calibration routines - but, that, like everything else, is merely a WASG (guess), since no information is available to the public about how Stage I and NGC controllers actually do what they do.[xx(][xx(][xx(]

At some point, a set of criteria that support past findings and confirm current operating parameters will emerge, and give some insight into actual operations. Until then, we will have to alternate our thumbs between our ears and other areas as we continue to try to discover what makes the thing tick. [:I]

[hyracer]

Hmmmmmmmmm, thanks 3BarBoost...didn't realize we could possible lose other accesories on the PT. Neither my wife or I are real A/C users (we prefer warm weather and open windows) and Oregon only gets really hot a few days a year so A/C is a non-issue with us. I do however need to maintain its "driveability".

I guess from your earlier posts I had assumed we were talking S2 with Toys since the "Toys" have been in doubt for half a year now. Myself personally I will probably not experiment that heavily with my "driver" even though I have other cars to fall back on.

As far as your help with S3, I know there are some on this forum that will want to adapt that stage as they are shooting for that magic 300 HP number or above. Another few years with my GT and I'll probably want to do that myself.

Keep up the good work and we'll keep our fingers crossed and hold-our-breath...until we hear the news from TurboG!

Deen

[TripleJackInGA]

Thanks 3Bar. I thought maybe you could wire in the toys on a PT S2, but didn't know if there was something else in the software of the SRT to work with the toys, or if it was just an electro-mechanical hookup.

Dalite - You bring up some very good points, but I think running a Stage kit is one thing, but reverting back to OBD I is something DCX will stay way far away from.Just my opinion.

[3BarBoost]

Actually, I think I was misunderstood on the VIN thing. Order a SRT Stage 1 and give them a PT VIN. Flight Systems will punch it in, and away you go. Toys seems feasible if this works.

We may lose AC and cruise only, or not. I may be able to find out more in the coming weeks.

[Dalite]

On the OBD I subject - that would definately be an aftermarket or "tuner" option. I agree that DCX would not open that can of worms.

When the owner of a accessory shop told me that is the route they took on newer vehicles, I was amazed at the simpicity of the approach.

However, I wouldn't really recommend taking that approach. The PCM and calibration for the Turbo incorporate some cutting edge concepts, and is a very good offering for a new design (NGC). All in all, I think they done good. I just wish there was a little more information available for data geeks like me to assimilate.

[hyracer]

quote:Originally posted by 3BarBoost

Actually, I think I was misunderstood on the VIN thing. Order a SRT Stage 1 and give them a PT VIN. Flight Systems will punch it in, and away you go. Toys seems feasible if this works.

We may lose AC and cruise only, or not. I may be able to find out more in the coming weeks.

Great, that still may give us an option just incase Mopar definetly decides to "opt-out" on the Toys issue with the PT...or if the 250 HP figure shown on the Mopar website last week was more than just a website "blooper".
Yes keep us informed on what you find out, thanks 3barBoost.

Deen