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The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

 
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 15 Oct 2018, 12:00 pm
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

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Originally Posted by myckee View Post

I have a Syked Stage 1 . Syked basically took the stock Mopar S1 and tweaked it a bit and also added the decel popping. ........ has some part throttle weirdness that I don't like.
Yes I may have all the original calibrations that he used for the purpose. We had talked about why they were causing idle and off idle problems. It is a little more then what I think was being changed in one cell area. To do it correctly their are several cells needing calibration changes to works without adding problems. If you look at least AFR and timing you may be able to see the flaw? I looked at a few other area's and could see the ECU struggling...so to say!

In the end for people like you (myckee) and me....better to do our own ECU calibrating
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Old 15 Oct 2018, 12:28 pm
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

Calibrated for "popping?" Isn't that just too rich? T1 cars used to do it much more than this thing.

Part of that might be how the PT doesn't let the idle drop immediately when I take my foot off the gas. It is a feature I have complained about, but it probably keeps the car from going from load to no load before it can lean back down.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 16 Oct 2018, 04:13 pm
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

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Calibrated for "popping?" Isn't that just too rich?

Part of that might be how the PT doesn't let the idle drop immediately when I take my foot off the gas. It is a feature I have complained about, but it probably keeps the car from going from load to no load before it can lean back down.
There is a specif way to properly calibrate a ECU for the "popping" effect. ECU "toooner" aka calibrator hacks just richen up the idle and pat themselves on the back.

The idle drops quick on mine as it should on all but drive by wire TB. If your's don't something is not correct. The Throttle body is cable controlled not a drive by wire. When the throttle plate is shut the engine speed should also reflect the fuel and air changes. Think about that just a little before responding.
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Old 28 Dec 2018, 10:06 am
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

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some part throttle weirdness that I don't like.
lean tip in?
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Old 28 Dec 2018, 02:35 pm
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

That popping is not always created by a tune, of course. It's been around since there have been combustion engines in one form or another.

From what I’ve learned, deceleration gurgle in many modern engines is caused when the throttle closes quickly and airflow is abruptly reduced. There’s less air in the combustion chamber and any unburnt fuel in they cylinders will burn at a much slower rate, slow enough that some of it is still burning as the exhaust valve opens causing the popping sound we hear.

My understanding is that often, the factory PCM is programmed to cut fuel above a certain RPM when at 0% or a small percent of throttle. This stops or greatly reduces the popping. During this routine, the PCM drops out of closed loop into open loop which feeds from a different programming fuel cell which cuts fuel to stop deceleration popping. When the RPM’s fall below a certain point, the PCM goes back into closed loop and fuel is added again.

I figure that a programmer could simply change the number in that fuel cell and/or change the RPM range for the deceleration routine to kick in and out. The popping could then be maximized for effect on a specific engine type by trial and error.

You might also get this kind of popping from having too much fuel and/or advancing the exhaust valves beyond spec. Thus, valve timing can sometimes cause this to happen. Here's a video of my 2005 GT with an unaltered Stage 1 from FWD Performance and the NS1PT performance camshafts with 0.063" lifter shims. I suspect that valve timing is the cause here. And this engine ran extremely well.




PS: I'm not sure if my current PT Vert with the Sykes custom PCM has deceleration gurgle programed into it or not. Other than higher turbo pressure, I'm not sure of any other difference from a comparable Stage 1. I'll have to make a video to see what amount of popping if any can be heard.
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Old 29 Dec 2018, 05:17 am
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

From what I understand you only add fuel if you need to are trying to cure a free flowing exhaust of a lean backfire. You shut the fuel off completely to get rid of gurgling while engine breaking (dfso). the closed throttle timing curve is what you screw with for the gurgle. It's wise to add timing to the upper rpm range to cure the gurgle. Doesn't make sense to have explosions in the exhaust on any car and just seems like an extra bad idea on a car that has a cast iron manifold that is prone cracking and has an expensive turbo on the end of it. I shouldn't really talk about bad ideas though. I have bbk headers with the welds ground out and I'm intending to find the mpg limit with lean cruise. Maybe I'm anti gurgle because I'm intending to be on borrowed time. Speaking of borrowed time .. it's 420 am. Eek
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Old 29 Dec 2018, 01:01 pm
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

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From what I understand you only add fuel if you need to are trying to cure a free flowing exhaust of a lean backfire. You shut the fuel off completely to get rid of gurgling while engine breaking (dfso). the closed throttle timing curve is what you screw with for the gurgle. It's wise to add timing to the upper rpm range to cure the gurgle. Doesn't make sense to have explosions in the exhaust on any car and just seems like an extra bad idea on a car that has a cast iron manifold that is prone cracking and has an expensive turbo on the end of it. I shouldn't really talk about bad ideas though. I have bbk headers with the welds ground out and I'm intending to find the mpg limit with lean cruise. Maybe I'm anti gurgle because I'm intending to be on borrowed time. Speaking of borrowed time .. it's 420 am. Eek
Yep. The switch to a specific value in open loop is just what some of the guys that tune Mopars say. I'm sure it depends on the PCM in question and if they know what they are doing. That's the problem with information that lacks a formal source. So you think Sykes is likely doing this by advancing the ignition timing at deceleration? That makes sense and from what little I know, sounds easier.

Why are you messing with BBK again? I though you swore those off. I know I have. I'm still loving the sound of the JBA headers and they seem to be holding up very well. I've already put over 10,000 miles on them. But we will see.
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Old 29 Dec 2018, 01:55 pm
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

if he added timing to the closed throttle timing curve at rpm above idle, it would cure the burble and make it sound normal, assuming he didn't add fuel.

---

for my beater if i wanted to hear my exhaust burble i would lower the values here from 30 until i heard the burbling. one negative side effect is this would also lower vacuum. I think to avoid that you'd only pull timing when over 1500rpm



if i wanted backfiring, fireballs, and louder popping that would scare old people and make mothers yank their children from the street and glare at me, i would lower the "1" here and add more fuel.



I might not get to melt the BBK headers. I have an opportunity to purchase a 24" roland vinyl cutter with less than one roll of vinyl through it for $1000, and I may sell my trans to do it. a friend has a garage kept, low mile, covered, red 2004 40th anniversary mustang GT convertible I may purchase for 3,000. my ECU nerd toys still work up 'til 2004. i can stick my supercharger on that and play with the tuning with my laptop. i'm getting sick of seeing my 1992 just sitting there. i don't have time, or a garage, or money, and my interest is decreasing as the rust over the rear wheelwell is increasing.
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Old 30 Dec 2018, 08:29 am
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Default Re: The Handy Mopar Stage 1 Install

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lean tip in?
It probably is, but I have been too lazy to install my wideband kit to find out. LOL It's like there is a dead spot in the throttle as you gently press and then suddenly it is all there and too much. I am just going to overwrite the Syked tune with the original Mopar S1 tune and be done with it.
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