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Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 01:06 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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Originally Posted by Handy_Cruiser View Post
Sorry Nitro, no one is insulting you here. And the thread doesn't have to be closed. It is possible to have an honest discussion about performance and testing results without passions getting to high. Others do it all the time.

But you can't back up unsubstantiated claims with more unsubstantiated claims. In truth, I valve your opinions on some things just as much as I value the opinions of other members. But you can't make bold statements about dyno testing and other types of data without providing it. And the same is true about experience and credentials. Folks can believe you just like that can believe any member. Sometimes you can be very insightful. But let's not infer we have data to back up our opinions if we don't. Like I said earlier, we are just perpetuated internet MYTHS when we do that.

And please don't ask me to talk to more people that know you. Unless I specifically call the individuals you recommend, some of others don't share your high opinion of yourself.
Handy_Cruiser, how many times are you going to keep breaking the rule of putting another member down? You need help!
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 01:27 pm
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Smile Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

OK, im definately not trying to start any tech wars over here, I know how those kinds of things can get out of control. lol I appreciate all the info, even opinion put out there. Just knowing somebody feels strongly one way or another is a bit of potentially useful info. And of course I thank everyone for their input.

With that clarified. The cost seems to be about the same for all 3 options, because if i acquire a 04/05 pcm to be flashed to work with my 03. So, say I might get a spare pcm to my door for 150 then add 200 for the reprogramming its about $350 for either of those. So thats pretty even.
But finding a magic 03 stage 1 unicorn box, doesnt sound likely, and going by opinions, not the best option anyway. It seems the 04 used newer magic computer speak and fuel map mathification.
SO... it probably down to DSP or Syked doing the programming. Im not complaining about not hearing back from Syked, I know people have things to do and the internet may not be one of those things.
Ive been trying to get the answer about the core pcu, but the internet provides information and misinformation in the same wrapper.
I read one place that it has to be an 04/ 05 with turbo and with Auto...then i read somewhere else it can be any 04/05 pt, including N/A base models. Even implying that that would be preferred because the turbo toasts the pcm from the heat.
So every answer i find, I find a conflicting answer.
This just adds to the frustration.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 01:34 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

And squeezing every ounce of power out isnt worth arguing about for my benefit. It seems all three are enough bump to get you into the same ballpark... Im more concerned with what is actually a viable direction to go.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 01:44 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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Originally Posted by kudah440 View Post
OK, im definately not trying to start any tech wars over here, I know how those kinds of things can get out of control. lol I appreciate all the info, even opinion put out there. Just knowing somebody feels strongly one way or another is a bit of potentially useful info. And of course I thank everyone for their input.

With that clarified. The cost seems to be about the same for all 3 options, because if i acquire a 04/05 pcm to be flashed to work with my 03. So, say I might get a spare pcm to my door for 150 then add 200 for the reprogramming its about $350 for either of those. So thats pretty even.
But finding a magic 03 stage 1 unicorn box, doesnt sound likely, and going by opinions, not the best option anyway. It seems the 04 used newer magic computer speak and fuel map mathification.
SO... it probably down to DSP or Syked doing the programming. Im not complaining about not hearing back from Syked, I know people have things to do and the internet may not be one of those things.
Ive been trying to get the answer about the core pcu, but the internet provides information and misinformation in the same wrapper.
I read one place that it has to be an 04/ 05 with turbo and with Auto...then i read somewhere else it can be any 04/05 pt, including N/A base models. Even implying that that would be preferred because the turbo toasts the pcm from the heat.
So every answer i find, I find a conflicting answer.
This just adds to the frustration.
Just for clarification, ALL Stage 1s for 03 already use 04/05 PCMs. The S1 programming required the upgraded hardware used in all turbo 04 and 05s and some 04/05 NA cars. So if you found and bought a Stage 1 for an 03, you could rest assured that you had the better hardware.

If you have a manual 03, then you need to use a manual 04/05 core. If you have an auto then you need to use an auto 04/05 core. For PT cores, the manual 04/05 cores, whether they are NA or Turbo, will work perfectly. I prefer the 04/early 05 PT core (5033290 used in both NA and turbo) because it has a large heatsink on it, while the later 05 pcm was a light all aluminum thing with no heatsink to speak of. This also holds true for the auto cores. The 04 and early 05s used the ones with large heatsinks. You can also use any 05 Neon core whether auto or manual; a manual core to be used in a manual car and an auto core to be used in an auto car.

I recommend a NA core because it has been subjected to less heat than the turbo cores. Heat is a turbo pcm killer.

NOTE!! If you looking for programming for a manual GT, and are not shipping Syked a core originally from a PT GT, then your speedometer will not work. This means a core from a NA PT or any Neon. While Kevin has unlocked most of the PCM for tuning, one area he has not hacked is the pinion factor/tire size area. Since he hasn't accessed this part, he cannot make your speedo work since the programming will be off. You will need to go to the dealer and have them update this, or send the pcm to FWD for that programming fix. If you send a manual GT core to him the factory programming will already be there and the speedo will work when you get it back from him.

This is a non issue with Cindy at FWD. Regardless of what core you send to her, the pinion factor will be set and your speedo will work right out of the box. She is also less busy and a bit cheaper too.

Also, if you need help finding a core, I have some and I will be happy to help you find a good one from someone else on ebay too. I am more than happy to help. Just send me a PM.

Last edited by myckee; 21 Sep 2017 at 02:02 pm.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 01:55 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Oh... thats big ol' pile of useful information myckee. Thanks
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 01:59 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Well, Ill be trying to find the core in a month or so. At the moment I collecting up plugs, wires, CAI parts, 05 injectors and i just got my plastic intake manifold yesterday.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 02:17 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Sooo.... just so ive got this right, an ideal candidate would be a core for an 04, PT (with the heat sinks), for an Automatic, GT (so the speedometer is calibrated or is that just an issue for the manuals?)

One other point on the 04/05 computer. Ive read somewhere about the cooling fan is different and may throw a fan code. Problem is I have the dreaded cooling fan issue already, because when something failed in the fan, Im assuming the previous owner found how difficult it was to acquire an 03 GT fan... so he did some rewiring with another year fan set on just 1 speed. It cools fine, but I get the trouble code for the fan, would the 04/05 computer be more compatible to the cooling system and I might be able to make the SEL to go off? That would definately be a bonus.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 02:23 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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Originally Posted by myckee View Post
Just for clarification,

While Kevin has unlocked most of the PCM for tuning, one area he has not hacked is the pinion factor/tire size area. Since he hasn't accessed this part, he cannot make your speedo work since the programming will be off.
MYKEE great response lot of good information. I might only add as always in the wording of things ...Keven has access the complete firmware ( may be adjustable?) he at the point we last talked does not know what and how to read all the information. I was helping him at one point but decided I did not want to use my PT as the "Lab Rat". There was another member that was experimenting with new area's adjusted by Keven but he also ended the experimentation because of his work schedule and need to have a completely reliable PT. The device used for most of the PCM access was made for Chrysler and personally owned at one time by a Chrysler Power Train Engineer. I got ALL the history of it from its original owner and well know its capabilities if one were able to understand all the numbers. The tools decipher has long been lost.
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Old 21 Sep 2017, 02:38 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

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The provided tunes in the Diablosport are NOT like the STAGE 1 that was available from Chrysler and DO NOT have the same gains as the original STAGE 1. They WILL net less total results.
DATA logging can easily show many of the differences, a tuning aide with an accelerometer can also aide in the comparison as well and best way to determine any changes regarding engine modifications is a trip to a DYNO with a before and after upload of the file provided from DS.


I saw a member looking at the FWD Performance thread this morning maybe that is where he got some of his responses for you? LOL

well frick me and my wording to make sure I am clear.

Let me correct it a bit! I think however that a couple of members...well only one MYKEE knew and knows exactly what I was trying saying?

************************************************** ********

The provided tunes in the Diablosport are NOT like the STAGE 1 that was available from Chrysler which DO NOT have the same gains as with using a DiabloSport provided file tune. The use of original STAGE 1 WILL net less total results.


DATA logging can easily show many of the differences, a tuning aide with an accelerometer can also aide in the comparison as well and best way to determine any changes regarding engine modifications is a trip to a DYNO with a before and after upload of the file provided from DS

This is simple reading ^^^^^ what this says is that if your are looking to do a correct method of increasing power output individual DATA should be collected (NOT SHARED) about your engines progress. It is almost impossible for other to duplicate the exact results and that is a BIG reason why posting DATA on forums is not really any help at all. I have almost NEVER read 2 people on any forum duplicating another members complete engine upgrades that also started with the same starting point of power out put.

Now please feel free to correct my grammar and sentence structure to suite your needs to respond to this again!
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Last edited by CREWZIN; 26 Sep 2017 at 05:36 am.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 21 Sep 2017, 02:51 pm
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Default Re: Silly newb question on the stage1/DSP/Syked options

Quote:
Originally Posted by kudah440 View Post
Sooo.... just so ive got this right, an ideal candidate would be a core for an 04, PT (with the heat sinks), for an Automatic, GT (so the speedometer is calibrated or is that just an issue for the manuals?)

One other point on the 04/05 computer. Ive read somewhere about the cooling fan is different and may throw a fan code. Problem is I have the dreaded cooling fan issue already, because when something failed in the fan, Im assuming the previous owner found how difficult it was to acquire an 03 GT fan... so he did some rewiring with another year fan set on just 1 speed. It cools fine, but I get the trouble code for the fan, would the 04/05 computer be more compatible to the cooling system and I might be able to make the SEL to go off? That would definately be a bonus.
Well since all of the automatics used the same transmission (programming wise), the speedo information only holds true for sending Kevin a Manual core for programming. Your automatic will have a working speedo. I believe FWD doesn't like to use 04 NA Automatic cores. I think they are okay with Kevin. I am not sure, so you should ask first. The safest bet for an automatic are the 05 cores. The 05 NA with part number 5033327 is a great one to use.

When FWD or Syked install the 03 S1 programming, the programming will be 100% for 03. All aspects of the 03 will work and function including the 03s special pcm controlled fan. It will be the newer hardware with 03 programming while making use of the higher resolution tables found in that hardware.
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